To think that our parents never parented like this and we all turned out ok?

[mosschops30]

Honestly every day i log onto MN and there is always some variation of the following:

Ds doesnt like school, should i keep him home its making him anxious
MIL fed dd fish fingers and i am furious
Dh said the house wasnt clean is he emotionally abusing me
I think my ds should fo half days because hes tired
Can rides be banned from supermarkets, im thinking of a petition
Im disgusted that ds was playing with a toy gun at friends party

Yada yada yada la la la
Really? Can you imagine any of our parents doing this, i couldnt even get a day off with stomach ache, let alone feeling tired, a vesta curry or crispy pancakes was considered the height of sophistication, we watched Nightmare on Elm Street at age 9, and apart from the knifed glove i have in the airing cupboard it didnt do me sny harm, parents wouldnt question the school on hours or teaching skills.

Honestly it just makes me i think people have too much time

"One wonders if the occasional smack was more effective than all the drugs and treatments they get shot up with these days....."

Unfortunately not. They just got hit a lot. Many of them are now in prison. I speak as someone who has relations never diagnosed but that I strongly believe have ADHD.

Some are dead. The poor impulse control that children with ADHD have leads them to do dangerous things - my own son pre medication jumped out of his wheelchair into the road, he's jumped into a pond and attempted to jump down a flight of stairs. Only my fast actions in pulling him back or restraining him stopped himself coming to significant harm.

ADHD isn't just 'naughty'. It's poor impulse control and combined with autism a zero sense of danger. If my son didn't have ADHD the medication wouldn't calm him, the chemical imbalance in his brain makes the Ritalin calming, anyone without that imbalance would react as if they're on speed.

As my son is now physically bigger and stronger I can't hold him.... the Ritalin means he has better impulse control. He still doesn't have any concept of danger but we can explain to him why for eg jumping off a 6 foot concrete bank is a bad idea and he'll listen.... which unmedicated he can't.

ADHD is a hell of a lot more complex than many realise.

We also didn't all get smacked. Many parents didn't smack.

Very true, Cory.

My mum was told not to pick me up all the time or I'd be spoiled...

I wasnt smacked the odd time my mum would flick me with a towel (what was that about ) if i was annoying her she did say she would tap my hand as a toddler if i was lunging towards a plug/fire/dog. but i cant remember beatings
, my mum did the silent treatment which is horrible , of course parents loved and cared for us they just didnt get overly concerned if you were pushed over at playgroup they picked you up the pushers mum usually apologised and that was it , there wasnt any parents clutching children to busoms declaring a 3 year old a bully and blaming the parents , which i see a lot these days ,

I think certain parents do seem to think that their DC will collapse into tiny pieces over small things. They don't seem to want to raise very robust children.

The problem is that there is so much information, a lot peddled by people with their own agenda (experts selling books, manufacturers selling products) - it's easy to see how you feel scared of jumping on the wrong train parenting-wise. Couple that with the fact that a lot of people have mothers who live far away or are still working, and the lack of extended family/friends as people move away for cheaper housing/better jobs and you have loads of new mums with no close female role models, desperately looking for the answer to how to raise your baby the "right" way.

"Well the sort of care we received as children affects the care we give our own, right? So maybe the way we were brought up has made us into the mollycoddlers we (generally) are"

No, I think that has a minimal effect TBH. I think peer pressure has a much greater effect. It would never have occurred to me to breastfeed my babies if I have only listened to my mum (and her generation). Ditto late weaning and later potty-training. I find myself reacting to my children in similar ways to her when under stress but that is because I am like her as much as a result of the way she parented.

housemum that it in a nutshell however i still think some parents maybe because of this no extended familiy etc become absorbed by their children then thats when the problems start ,

I think a lot of people haven't turned out alright tbh

My parents were pretty laid back and not very strict...however there was a line and if we crossed it there was big trouble. My Dad was fun but old school...manners were of up most importance. We were more likely to get in trouble for not saying thank you for something over breaking rules / coming home late etc.

I remember falling down a cliff once...my Dad had lowered me down on a dog lead to collect golf balls (cliff top was edge of a golf course). I managed to clamber back up and was OK...just scratches etc.

Our Mum use to smoke 60 a day...I remember my Brother and I begging her to not smoke in the car as it made us feel sick. She did though and we have both gone on to be fit, healthy adults. My Brother does very well in Ironman events so obviously did no harm to him long term.

I am not saying this was ideal, however we did survive. My Brother and I laugh about our childhood, and I think it was full of experiences that have led to us having good character.

I have a friend (and know his sister) who had the perfect (and I mean perfect) upbringing. Very limited TV, no sweets, LOTS of educational activities all throughout childhood, VERY moral and righteous upbringing. The are both clever and have good careers but are INCREDIBLY dull and boring. Neither has any personality. They are the polar opposite to my brother and I, they have no crazy stories to tell. This may be interpreted as good or bad I suppose.

I bring up my dc as I was, I am not precious. They are both very independent and have gone on to embrace nursery/school with open arms. They are not clingy yet we are still very close. They get muddy/wet etc every week. I stopped sterilising bottles at 3 weeks. If they drop some food on the floor I pick it up and hand it back. If they are very very naughty I shout...that is what happens if you push someone to their limits, and they need to learn that. I do not smack though. My dc are happy, healthy, confident and therefore I feel no need to change how we do things.

I think helicopter parenting is piss poor preparation for the real world.

Housemum's theory of childcare:
Milk - breast is best, so always give it a try but if it doesn't work out your child will not automatically end up obese, only if you try force feeding them or adding other sh*t to their bottle. Don't beat yourself up about it if you can't/won't.
Potty training - if you aren't using cloth nappies, your child won't associate weeing with wetness and discomfort, as the disposables soak it away much quicker. So it'll probably take longer than Grandma's day. Don't sweat it - be prepared for mess and accidents, learn a whole new attitude to bodily fluids. Your child will be ready when they are, I did think at one point my daughter would be in nappies at Uni (she finally got it a month before her 4th birthday).
Food - some kids are just fussy eaters. I didn't believe this until my 3rd, I thought it was the parents' fault. Weaned DD3 exactly the same as the others, lots of different tastes introduced. She pretty much refuses anything for dinner except sausages or chicken goujons (ok, posh nuggets). She won't starve. Sometimes we have something else and she refuses to eat it, she just eats the pasta or bread that's with it. She still has some fruit for pud, and I give her a multivitamin. One day she'll outgrow it by natural curiosity I hope.
Extra-curricular activities - do it only if your child wants to and you can afford it. I stupidly paid £60 a term for toddler music classes once as I was brainwashed into the idea that musical education is good for every child. I think every child should have access to music, but not necessarily before school if they show no interest or aptitude. (I think music is part of national curriculum now, certainly DD2's primary school has at least one music lesson a week). DD2 can't remember any of the stuff she learned from age 3-5, and sat looking only half interested during the lessons.

I could rant on but am just procrastinating and should be ticking off my to do list...

I couldnt agree more. The extremes are just incredible. I have a good friend who is like this. To deal with her very pleasant 3 yo DD's 'behavioral problems' she has

• banned all biscuits, sweets, ice cream, crisps, drinks etc.
• banned all TV

She thinks because of this she is a great mother even though she is on m/l and leaves her older child in creche 5 days a week 8-5.30!!!

I certainly don't think that the crispy pancakes, waffles and supernoodles did any irreparable harm and I suspect that the real troubles in my life (alcoholic dad etc) would have been just as likely now as then, so I agree entirely with those who feel about women having hissy fits about these sorts of things.

However, on the flip side of things, I am taking ds to one of those toddler music classes at the moment, you know the type - happy music with puppet props and parachutes that you pay £4 a pop for when you could stick on a cd at home for free, that sort of thing. There's no way he needs it developmentally, and yes, all the old dears sage advice about how they get as much out of a brown cardboard box remains true. ...

However, for that 45 minutes every week, he dances as though no one was watching with little people his own age, and I get to see that.. I get to see how he has changed since he started, when he was quite reticent and shy in the new environment, and how he has settled in there, I get a kick out of watching him make little connections with his favourite peers etc. I can sit back and just observe him being him, a two year old first-born.

No doubt he does all of this and more at nursery etc, or I could have people round etc, and no, it's nowhere near an essential for any child. I just feel so fortunate that I am so privileged to live in a moment in time where I can have this luxury, where there is no war or famine in my life, I'm not on the run from anyone, my mind is free from worry about what food is in my cupboards or where the money for the next bill will come from. My family is happy and well. All of that could change in a heartbeat, in a second - so having that luck and good fortune to be able to have these moments, whether at music class or elsewhere, which are all about just being together and being happy is something I really value.

I don't think my parents, even before they had real problems, would have felt "allowed" to be happy in this way. I certainly think this type of "self-indulgence" would have been frowned upon when many of my grandparent's generation were raising their children. There was a culture, which of course still exists for many even in the first world today, that you didn't want to spend too much time playing with or being with your kids, because then they would "expect it" and you would "never get anything done". I'm happy to know - and feel secure in the knowledge - that children can have attention and love and play and can still learn to play independently and do chores etc. What a nice mix!

I have no problem with kids going to classes, it's just the people (as I was!) that take them when the child isn't even that keen, and are doing it in the hope of boosting their child's IQ and gaining them one-upmanship. (Oh, so you only do Tumbletots and a coffee group? X is doing tennis/kumon/harp lessons/Mandarin and we might get in Cirque du Soleil for their birthday party...)

I dont think that classes are an issue either, if kept within reason they are fun and aid development - I did dancing, swimming and french classes as did many of my friends. However I do think the trend for naming your parenting style 'attachment', 'unconditional' 'gina ford' etc is out of control and the dogmatic approach many mothers have is extreme.
Also the focus on those first 6 months - breastfeeding, sleeping, weaning etc is just obsessive. Women are under such immense pressure to everything 'right'.

Yeah, you have a point there . It's the "professionalisation" of it.

I noticed this a lot on mat leave, people anxious to justify going to x or y by saying it is to reap some developmental benefit vs to get out of the house/get a bit of routine in the day/meet new people not lose all sense of space and time stuck in the house all day. I took ds to Gymboree when he was a baby. He got nothing out of it and I didn't get much more but I kept going for far longer than I needed to in the vain hope I would make some friends!

I suppose the difference in bringing a young infant to a "class" and a toddler is that, well, the todder will make it pretty clear whether they find it good, bad or indifferent and people are unlikely to persist if the verdict is a negative one. I've heard people ascribe all sorts of stuff to these "classes" e.g. "oooh Maisie loves to sing, I'm sure it's because we've been going to Rhythm Time since she was 6 weeks old!" (erm, most toddlers are partial to a bit of out-of-tune crooning...).

On the other hand, I find the competitive "free range" parenting just as irritating. Among a group of friends, someone asked for some art/craft ideas from one of us who is very arty/crafty etc and she obliged by bringing a book full of stuff they have done in her house to a meet-up. There were some really cool little ideas in there, lots of stuff from various crafty mags and suggestions from online fora for activities/projects for toddlers. It was a like a recipe book. She shared because she was asked... and, rudely, not only were people very offhand about it with lots of "oh but how do you find the TIME?" and "I suppose if you're not that bothered with housework it would be easy enough" comments etc, but when she was gone, these bitches these women were saying things like "I think she's lying" and commenting how her perfectly lovely, sensible kids would grow up unable to handle boredom and expecting to be entertained all the time! Now, as anyone who HAS done crafty things with a todder will tell you, their engagement can vary from 5 to 20 minutes on it, and the rest is clean-up. There is plenty of time to be bored in a full day at home and amuse yourself and have a craft activity or two. This woman was doing it because she enjoys it, not because she wanted to show anyone up or because she was trying to be or pretend to be or emulate being "good" at mothering but heaven forfend anyone could just say, "looks fab but not for me"....

The parents who complain to school about little Johny didn't have water etc do you think this has anything to do with their feelings for the child? I think it has fuck all to do with the child and everything to do with attention seeking parents. Ditto the 'parenting styles', imo nothing to do with the child, more to do with 'look at how clever i am'. Maybe because we are the 'clever' generation, many of us are the first in the family to have a degree so we have to prove that we parent in a more sophisticated way.

Also, our parents were members of communities. I don't remember my mum saying 'my children are doing well' but i do remember her saying 'aren't our children do well?'. 'Our children' could mean the whole extended family i.e. 40 cousins, like the Smith children, or a whole neighbourhood or village or town. Today the units are very small, just one family competing with everybody else.

The parents who complain to school about little Johny didn't have water etc do you think this has anything to do with their feelings for the child? I think it has fuck all to do with the child and everything to do with attention seeking parents. Ditto the 'parenting styles', imo nothing to do with the child, more to do with 'look at how clever i am'. Maybe because we are the 'clever' generation, many of us are the first in the family to have a degree so we have to prove that we parent in a more sophisticated way

I agree a lot with this.

Well I guess I have turned out "OK". But I would rather be more than "OK" if I am completely honest. I don't think my parents put any thought into their parenting whatsoever. I like to think I'm a bit more aware.

In the past, most people will have had lots of experience of babies and children before becoming mothers. For example, I didn't have extended family close but it was very very usual for 8/9 year old girls to take neighbours toddlers out to play, to babysit for neighbours as a teenager, etc. So I think by the time you became a mum you knew more than perhaps some new mums do today? I don't mean the theory - I knew less - I mean the actual practical hands on experience. And tbh I think that does make it easier and makes you worry a bit less.

Has anyone watched Mad Men? My parents loved it as it was their childhood.

There's one scene where Don and wife are sitting on a Sunday afternoon, listening to records and reading the newspaper, smoking away while the kids mixed them cocktails.

DP and I thought that looked brilliant. But I also saw the effect on my parents of that sort of upbringing - mum with depression and anxiety after being to 12 different schools, having to follow her mother wherever or my dad who has spent his life never being good enough for his father - we are messing up our kids in new ways, after all, 'They fuck you up, your mum and dad...

I find ther pressure to be in a state of constant anxiety about their food ( yes it's fish fingers and chips in our house tonight) and the right sort of school and are they happy etc etc, quite overwhelming. It's like childhood is this sort of fetish.

And I had a very normal childhood but a better time in my late teens and adulthood - I craved independence and when I got it I loved it.

I think Laquitar's post makes a lot of sense too.

The sad part is that I see a little bit of myself in it.

I have a first class psychology degree. I should be a better parent!

LeQueen that sounds like most average 70's parents and I actually think that generation may have cracked the balance.
Full of love but you knew what was expected of you and you knew that you didnt want to let them down..