to think that most shops use vanity sizing now, and a 10 is really an old 14

[GetOrfMoiiLand]

Are there any shops which use what I would call 'old' sizes.

I remember when a 10 was really small. When I was in my teens and a lot smaller than now, I was a 12 at most. I am now a 10.

My gran (on clearing out her wardrobe) was always a size 12-14 - on trying on some jackets from the 80s which were a 14 they were very tight.

Hardly any shops stocked 8s, and they were tiny. Now every shop stocks 6's, and they are not really that small. My local Asda stocks clothes in a 4.

Totally agree MixedBerries. Also the fact that people seem to think it's socially acceptable to point out your thinness ALL THE TIME.

My boss regularly grabs my waist and goes "GOSH you're so THIN, do you EAT?" Everyone thinks that's fine, even if she does it in front of people.

I would never DREAM of saying "JESUS, you're so FAT, do you EVER stop eating?"

Agree with all the thin people. I hate how it is acceptable to poke fun at me for my (lack of) weight and yet nobody would dream of doing the opposite to someone overweight - and if they did they'd be quite rightly rounded on and told where to get off. And all the 'real women' stuff is just plain rude and cruel. OK, so not only is it all right to belittle my very real struggles with my weight and laugh at me, but it is also OK to suggest that because I am thinner than average I am somehow less of a woman? Great. Thanks.

I feel I have fun poked at me quite a lot for being overweight, and 'bigger' (I have a chunky frame as well as carrying extra weight). And I'm not even massively overweight.

I'm made to feel less of a woman because I'm too big and not delicate enough. Swings and roundabouts and all that. Grass is greener ektc. The lads at work love pointing out what I eat.

Yes! You are sooo NBU. You hear people say they are a size 10 when years ago they would have been classed a size 14. When I was a teen I wore size 12, now I have to go with a 10 or an 8 and my bathroom scales are definately bending further to the right than they did when I was 18.

Everyone should concentrate on being healthy, thin or not imo.
But yes, I am a 14 in old money (have loads of vintage stuff so I know this. Also have made clothes with vintage patterns.)

In a dress from most high st shops I would buy a 10 now, but at the end of the day it's just a number and If you look like a big moo in it the fact that it says 8 on it won't change that!

Anyway sizes must be bigger cos you never used to see 8's anywhere, and it's not like people are getting thinner is it?

Well, they are very rude, DoesNotGiveAFig. I'm sorry people are mean to you. I don't think anyone's size or appearance ought to be a joking matter or a reason for unpleasant comments.

Haber I completely agree! Thanks :) I have learned they are a bunch of chauvanist (sp) pigs anyway and ignore them.

I haven't read the thread because I know what you will all have said. I always say this, too: I don't know where you are buying your clothes if you have noticed this. My older clothes are all smaller sizes than the ones I'm buying now. ANd they all fit. So... have I been lucky or are you all (for some reason I can't fathom) trying to make us feel bad?

MixedBerries - but the poster didn't say that you are a skinny cow - she made a light-hearted general remark about cream cakes! People say that to me - "you're lucky, you can eat what you like". I don't say "how dare you!"or even "no, I just spend an hour a day running or swimming so I can eat what I like" - I just nod and smile. People say stuff just to pass the time of day, and in this case I don't think it was meant at all personally. I think you're projecting.

"I think you're projecting" - what is it you think she's projecting, because honestly, this makes no sense in this context.

I get sick of people commenting on my weight all the time, I don't know why people feel it's socially acceptable to say that, but not to say someone's fat.

Might I point out, I'm not the only one who thought the comment was slightly offensive? If someone had said "people whose body certainly knows how to store a cream cake", rest assured, there would be outrage about the "fattism" of society.

My body certainly knows how to store a cream cake. Mmmm cream cake.

Ha ha! Are you being fattist about yourself, Fig?

Indeed! [bsmile]

I have lost weight- but even so it is ridiculous-I wear size10 trousers and no way could I wear size 10 in my 20's when I was thinner.

'Studio claimed Marilyn Monroe's measurements were 37-23-36.'

1950s size 16 is 38 bust, so if those were her measurements she would indeed have had to wear 16 dress or blouse size to fit the bust in.

"I think you're projecting" What I mean is that I thought MixedBerries was seeing offence where none is meant. She is interpreting the cream cake remark as having been malicious, in the context of her experience of people having been mean to her in the past about her weight.

Of course it's not nice to make personally offensive remarks about appearance, but I don't agree that it's wrong to make remarks about appearance full stop. And given that we're constantly sold this idea that thin is better than fat from every quarter, I think even vaguely grumpy remarks about thinness should be given a bit of leeway. Of course it's not OK to call someone a skinny cow or say they're not a "real woman" or whatever, but that's not the same in any way as talking in general about women who can get away with eating cream cakes.

That's not really projecting though.

Why not just not comment on people's weight? It's banal and you don't know people's history.

OK yellowraincoat, it's not really projecting.

I agree, it is banal to comment on people's weight to their faces; a tiresome non-starter of a conversation topic, but no-one here is doing that/has done that/is defending that.

How much taller than your Gran are you Getorf?

I am very short (5ft) and find normal sized clothes big on me, petite are less generously cut. I could be a 12 in TP petite but a 10 in the "regular" range - presumably women are taller on average than their grandparents' generation? Being taller means you maybe proportionally bigger?

I don't shop in m&s yet, but clothes aimed at the younger generation tends to be smaller imho, Monsoon used to be quite generous, Mango used to be less so. I feel like I haven't shopped enough recently to compare sizing.

1950s size 16 is 38 bust, so if those were her measurements she would indeed have had to wear 16 dress or blouse size to fit the bust in

Actually she had a dress maker so her clothes would have been made to fit her body and the measurements would be used to create her clothes to fit and her dress maker had different measurements to her studio.

No-one thinks she'd have worn 2012 size 16 though do they?

*'Studio claimed Marilyn Monroe's measurements were 37-23-36.'

1950s size 16 is 38 bust, so if those were her measurements she would indeed have had to wear 16 dress or blouse size to fit the bust in.

It's not a modern 16 though, which is the point - people try and say "Well Marylin was a 16" but they are thinking sizing now. (My dad anyhow when he's rambling about stick thin women starting with twiggy ektc ektc)

I agree DoesNotGiveAFig. I enjoy dressmaking and any vintage pattern I use has to be about 2 or 3 sizes larger than my current modern size if it has any chance of fitting me. It's also noticeable with dress patterns that vintage ones have smaller waists and larger hips than modern ones.
Also, I used to wear some of my gran's glam vintage stuff when I was a teenager- it was all a size 14 whereas I was a size 10 in high street shops.
I conclude Marilyn was a vintage 16. Looking at photos of her, that seems about right. In modern sizes, she doesn't look anywhere bigger than a 12. Although she did have a very accentuated hourglass figure which isn't catered for commonly these days. That probably confuses the issue.

I want a 22" waist again :(