to think that most shops use vanity sizing now, and a 10 is really an old 14

[GetOrfMoiiLand]

Are there any shops which use what I would call 'old' sizes.

I remember when a 10 was really small. When I was in my teens and a lot smaller than now, I was a 12 at most. I am now a 10.

My gran (on clearing out her wardrobe) was always a size 12-14 - on trying on some jackets from the 80s which were a 14 they were very tight.

Hardly any shops stocked 8s, and they were tiny. Now every shop stocks 6's, and they are not really that small. My local Asda stocks clothes in a 4.

I find M&S sizes are very small. All my large size clothes are M&S. I find Debenhams are generous as I am two sizes smaller in there than M&S. Tesco is in the middle of the two.

That's really interesting. Because I'd guess my bust is about 34" or maybe 35" and my hips about 35" or 36" but a size 10 in nearly any shop absolutely drowns me. The arm holes are too large, the neckline is too large, the actual arms are baggy even if meant to be fitted, there's a ton of material round the waist that I don't need and anything that is tight around the legs like skinny jeans would also be pretty baggy (and def not actually tight). So although my hips and bust sound similar in size to yours the other bits of me obviously aren't or you wouldn't be happily wearing size 10s.

I am sure you're right and a lot of it is down to changing proportions.

Get the tape measure out (you must have one, going by your name :) ) I don't know what I would have guessed my measurements as, I had to actually measure them.

I think it also depends on what you wear and how tight/loose you like it to be.

A tailored nonstretchy dress with pencil-skirt-shape is going to fit differently to a flowing stretchy jersey dress, and the size you need will depend on what part of you is relatively "biggest". (e.g. I have a friend who is much smaller than me everywhere except the bust).

OK, I'll go and find one!

You'll either:
1 - find that you are smaller than me and that's why you need smaller clothes
or
2 - confuse us both as to why we measure similarly but are wearing different sizes!

:)

Hips 35", bust 34", waist 26". That puts my hips at a size 10 on those measurements but my bust as a size 12. Honestly, I would look like an actual maniac wearing a size 12 anything! It would be enormous!

I think we can ignore the 0.1 of an inch and say that it puts your bust at the top end of a 10 in 1982 :)

I just tried to look up some current shops and what size they say things are... but most of them are in cm and I can't be arsed to translate.

New Look says 34.5 bust, 37 hips (but specifies "lower hip", which if they mean the wide bit at the top of the thighs is larger on me than my actual hips)

M&S says size 10 is 34 inch bust but 37 inch hips - M&S are clearly going for pear-shape.

Boden sensibly gives a range, size 10 is 34-35 1/2 bust, 35 1/2 - 37 hips

Warehouse has inches too - size 10 is 34.5 bust, 36.5 hips.

So these shops, if they cut their clothes according to their own size guides, are cutting 10s at the size that the 1982 guide would say was more like a 12. So that's a drift of 1 size in 30 years. Not quite as dramatic as a lot of people have made out.

I haven't read the whole thread but I completely agree that sizes have shifted towards the more generous side. When I was in my teens in the late seventies, when really skin tight jeans were in, I couldn't get into an 8 and was doing all that jigging around with coat-hanger thing trying to get the zip done up on size 9s. For most clothes I was a size 10. I'm now 8.5 stone and my usual size for clothes is 8, including jeans. In Karen Millen I'm a 10 in dresses (I find them big on the hips but a size 8 won't go round my 30C breasts!). I suspect Karen Millen is closer to the old sizing.

The thing is, I know, from trying them on, that an M&S or Boden 10 is much too large on me. An M&S or Boden 8 leaves plenty of room for expansion and I would not buy either of these makes for me unless it was just a basic jersey top or something where it doesn't matter too much if it's a little looser. Anything fitted round the ribcage/under the bust or around the waist would be a complete non-starter. So I don't think they are telling the truth!! Have not shopped at either Warehouse or New Look in recent years but I have an oldish pair of jeans from New Look that I bought when I had just given birth about five years ago. They are a size 8 and far too big for me, though they did very nicely when I was still getting back to my usual shape and my stomach was still rather large and wobbly in comparison to its usual shape and size.

"I find M&S sizes are very small."

I have never found M & S clothes small. I have been buying from them for over 30 years and IMO they are generously sized

I find M&S generous in the leg and hip but very tight on the waist. I'm pretty straight up and down and I find M&S and Next tend to suit those with a waist.

Jins, perhaps that is why I have to buy a bigger size in M&S as I am apple shaped, so my waist is bigger, in proportion, to my hips. I musty admit everything always fits fine in M&S till I try and do up the waistband. It is then I have to get a size up.

And I'm pear shaped and always find M & S skirts and trousers gape at the waist on me.

I also find M&S & Next far too small in the waist for me since having kids & losing any waist that I once had.

I also think that "we" are just generally a lot bigger than previous generations - and I dont mean fatter, just "bigger" all round. My Nan was tiny as were many of her friends, I was taller than her at 9yrs old!!!!! If she were alive still, she would be wearing "petite" or even kids clothing although she wore a 12-14 most of her life.

So I dont think it is all about sizes changing for vanity reasons...

I think women are less hourglass shaped than previous generations. I'm sure I read that some of it was due to taking the pill. I struggle with M & S because to me their clothes are cut for apple shapes, and as my waist is 12" smaller than my hips, they just don't fit. Fortunately some jeans manufactureres are waking up to the fact that not all women are the same shape and make jeans for apples and pears - hooray! Sadly M & S only seem to make clothes for apples.

I was in Monsoon today and tried on 3 size 14 dresses which were massive on me, but according to dressmaking measurements I am a 14. In monsoon I am a ten.
Armholes! What is it with giant gaping armhomes? Even on the smaller sizes.
I am a very classic ladyshape, and nothing fits me off the peg at all, I have to alter things.

It's probably because they're more likely to tear if there's less ease in the armhole and they don't want to have them returned to the shop which must cost them a lot of money.

This strikes a chord

I am a size 8 now. I left university 22 years ago. I weigh just slightly less than I did then. At university, I was a size 12. I do think the differential is two dress sizes.

tunip no i don't buy especially expensive clothes, and there's no doubt that my 30inch waist suggests i ought to be wearing a size 12 i guess. but bust 33 and hips 34, and i'm generally a pocket sized person, and anything bigger than an 8 would swamp me. i think i'm just out of proportion, very straight up and down

I am a size 8 in some things but when I was a teenager I was a size 10 but things hung off me a bit. size 8 didn't really exist until the 90's. I am sure my hips are bigger now.

I did try one of my mum's dresses from the 70s on and it was a 10 and it was really tight under the bust.

I think sizes may have got more generous.

Some primark things come small whereas m&S are ridiculously huge sizes I dont even know how they size things compared to other shops.

Well this is a bit depressing

I'm a bit at the people saying you couldn't buy size 8 clothes in the 80s. You could. I have several size 8 pairs of drainpipe jeans and some gothy dresses from the early/mid 80s (and a couple of suits from the late 80s) which I am keeping in case they ever come back into fashion (they won't). And some size 8 mini skirts which I am now too old for :(. They all still fit, these days I wear size 6 from shops that have that size and size 0 or 1 from banana republic and Gap BUT I was size 0 or 1 in Gap in the mid 90s, I wouldn't say that the sizing had changed since then.

I'm between an 8 and a 12 depending on the shop (and have a coat from New Look in a 14 that fits just right...). I'm also more towards the 8 in my bottom half and more towards the 12 in my top half.
I think I'm a bit of a weird shape though, have a 27" waist and big boobs (and a high waist which puts my hips in the wrong place and makes jeans a bit difficult!)

I put on a bit of weight the last couple of years after I quit smoking - my size 8 jeans from Next wouldn't go past my thighs but the Primark ones still fit! Now I've lost the weight again the Next jeans fit great, and the Primark ones are now my comfy slobby ones! I also got some size 10 jeans from Asda that fit great when I was at my biggest, but won't stay up now.

I'm very much with whoever said women's sizing should go with measurements like mens - I only ever order clothes online if they give measurements to go by.

Now as for S/M/L.......