11 YO DD1 told not to bring Twilight book into school again because it's 'unchristian'

[AgentZigzag]

DD1s teacher from last year asked her what she was reading at playtime on Friday, DD1 told her it was 'New Moon' which we'd bought her for her birthday in December.

The teacher hurried off and had quiet words with the teacher taking her class this year, they both came back and said she wasn't in trouble, but they didn't want her to bring the book in again to school because it's at odds with the christian values of the school (it's C of E).

The teacher said she'd read the first Twilight book and it's fine if her mum and dad think it's OK for her to read it, but she didn't think it was for little girls and they'd 'get into trouble if anyone saw her reading it' (DD thought the trouble would be from the vicar, although I find this hard to believe).

There are a few things I feel a bit uncomfortable about -

-this teacher had asked DD what she was reading a few times when DD took in the first Twilight book in, and just smiled and said nothing.

-they're actively encouraged to read Harry Potter books, and if you're banning Twilight because it's 'unchristian' then shouldn't that go for HP as well, and anything else with fantasy characters in? So no more fairies or Father Christmas then.

-DD was reading it at playtime, so nothing to do with lessons. Are they expecting her to spread dissent on what the Evil books are about or something?

-I feel they're somehow insinuating we're being unchristian letting her read them, although I couldn't care less about them judging me on my religious views, it annoys me because it seems a bit of a random rule when she's gone all the way through the school and no other judgments on our christian values have been mentioned.

I'm pretty much hands off when it comes to school, letting them get on with their job and do what they ask of me re homework etc. So I'm not planning on storming down there to confront them or anything, but this has really got on my wick and I'm posting to try and sort out what I think about it really.

Am I being unreasonable?

I'm pretty sure faith schools are allowed to opt out of the SACRE syllabus. So can academies in general - things are tending to move in the wrong direction.

How would you feel if your children, despite your attempts not to allow them to be exposed, decided they belived in God notfluffy?

Would they be made to feel your disdain?

I very much doubt that will happen, but if it dud happen I would be honest with them, they know how I feel about religion (at least my adult daughters do), and would know if I bullshitted them. It'd probably be a topic best avoided over the dinner table but it wouldn't alter my live for them.

Excuse spelling, back on PC now, should improve.

Grimma I think it's the other way round, that state schools can opt out of certain elements of the local SACRE for various reasons, for eg the school being made up of a high percentage of Muslim pupils. Not sure about faith schools opting out in favour of a less tolerant teaching of other faiths - not in my experience, but that's admittedly limited

Notfluffy, surely you do children a disservice by thinking that sitting with their heads bowed thinking about the nice flowers and bunnies and being grateful for them could mess their heads up? Children are generally more ... ahem ... rational about such things People seem to assume children are being brainwashed by this organised regime that is the local CofE school. Children soon learn to make up their own minds about this kind of stuff. Is it any more harmful to them than believing in Santa, at this fluffy kind of level? Or do you see it as more so because many people do continue to believe?

Children are more influenced by the home and parental views. I have to agree that some teachers take it too far and confuse dc, but that's where parents have a responsibility to come and clarify things and talk it through. However, I concur that shouldn't have to be the case. Teachers should stick to the general agreed syllabus rules and not bring their personal faith into it, apart from possibly saying that they themselves are a christian, and this is what christians believe....and this is what muslims believe...etc etc.

madhairday

I didn't say mess their heads up, I said it indoctrinated them, however mildly. It's lazy and disingenuous to attribute bunnies and flowers to god. Have a science lesson and tell them about bunnies and flowers. And when they have a parent like me at home who is having to correct them and give them the scientific reason for bunnies and flowers all it does is confuse the child, unnecessarily. Do all your thanking in church or your own house, keep it away from children, especially mine.

As I've said before, kids will believe in Santa but no adult would perpetuate the Santa myth beyond primary school level.

Put it this way: A whole bunch of atheists set up a commune, a few hundred of them, and start having children there, no children are brought in from outside. Those children are brought up without any notion of a god at all, not from their parents, TV, books... nothing. They are told only what we know about the universe from a scientific point of view. They are loved and cherished and educated to a high standard. Do you think any of those children will become theists? Do you think the subsequent adults lives will be lacking in anything?

And what are the origins of the moral code the children in the athiest commune being schooled by notfluffy?

Is it a faith selective C of E school where all children are admitted for being of the faith or is it just a local school which happens to be C of E (we have a lot of village schools like that round here)? If the former then I would expect them to shoehorn more religious stuff in and expect parents to be more tolerant of it. if the latter then I would hope that the school would recognise the diversity of the children's backgrounds and not inflict this bowdlerising approach on them.

Are you really suggesting that we need the bible or christianity to be moral?

If you lost your faith tomorrow would you start murdering and abusing kids?

There is an evolutionary root to our moral behaviour, altruistic humans reproduce, altruistic societies perform better, we are stronger as a group than alone.

I don't think we need organised religion so that we are moral. I do think it is responsible for a lot of destruction in the world.

Organised religion, that is. Although I am reading Ayan Hirsi Ali at the moment so am feeling rather angry about religion at the moment anyway.

Send her in with Phillip pullman next week and watch them spontaneously combust.

How daft.

Fairy stories are not christian ffs, honestly, I'm a bit short today but what a load of toss!

No comment re how GOOD the books are.

I think we were asked what our religion was on the application form for the school breatheslowly. And DD has been taught about other faiths. I think it was the wording of what the teachers said that pissed me off raised my eyebrows, I expect them to teach christian values because of the nature of the school, but I didn't expect them (just going on my past five years experience) to ban a book for the reasons they gave.

We don't need the bible or christianity to be moral notfluffy (although I bet you are <a class="break-all" href="http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=fluffy&hl=en&sa=X&biw=1146&bih=697&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=Ump_wHfbIS96XM:&imgrefurl=melvinnebergall.blogspot.com/2011/02/fluffy-bunny-sweeps-country.html&docid=h8Kf1Yw6-eVsyM&imgurl=2.bp.blogspot.com/_ZMrwwmBAc28/TUBQDmycdJI/AAAAAAAAALc/pPu-s0APwxM/s1600/fluffy%252Bbunny.png&w=538&h=393&ei=kFsgT4yTGsrBswbk0MGyDA&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=736&vpy=204&dur=1162&hovh=153&hovw=203&tx=153&ty=142&sig=112379514407926695039&page=1&tbnh=153&tbnw=203&start=0&ndsp=17&ved=1t:429,r:4,s:0" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">a bit fluffy OK, maybe not quite that much) because they've been woven into the fabric of our society. And the same would go for an Islamic country etc. Men People might have fucked up the meaning of the teachings for their own (usually political ends), but in essence they're a force for good. To me, if you take out religion from a society, you're just left with politics. The STASI anyone? Or maybe a bit of Chinese communism? Stalins Russia? The Nazis? (Godwins law ) No thanks.

Lets look at the 10 commandments shall we?

1 ?I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me. I think you'll find you allegedly made man with a free will, where do you get off commanding this shit?
2 ?You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My Commandments. Well the carved image commandment's being broken in every church in the country, never mind the world. And what a lovely forgiving god who'll fuck over the generations of people who excercise the free will that god gave them in the first place
3 ?You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain. More narcissism, yawn
4 ?Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it. Well a day off is never a bad thing but for the vast majority who are lucky enough to get a Sunday off it's the day you wash your car and eat too much Sunday Roast, which you've slaved over the cooker to make
5 ?Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
6 ?You shall not murder.
7 ?You shall not commit adultery.
8 ?You shall not steal.
9 ?You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. *6,7,8 & 9 really just come under The Golden Rule which can be dated back to Confucius and ancient Egypt.
10 ?You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.? Hmm, not sure this one's being obeyed by many

So, mostly just a narcissistic dictator without any originality.

Do you prefer disorganised religion, Norman?

"Although I am reading Ayan Hirsi Ali at the moment"

Which one? Are you enjoying it? I've read Nomad and The Caged Virgin, good reads.

I'd like to see your attempt at simplifying a whole societys rules into 10 easy soundbites fluffs

Fuuuuuck! (deep breath)

Hitler was a Catholic, Nazi soldiers had Gott Mit Uns on their belt buckles, they were hardly atheists.

The others were communism, attrocities done in the name of communism were just that, in the name of communism, NOT atheism (Bad communism, not real communism)

Trying so hard to be a teeny bit fluffy, lol.

I am reading 'Infidel' although the description of her circumcision was eye watering.

You can have ' natural religion' - the idea that we are governed by an omniscient, omnipotent being who has designed our planet. You should read Hume's 'Dialogues concerning natural religion' - actually, op, that's a fabulous one to take to school and I am sure they would approve - organised religion is all the rules that go along with pleasing your God- not being homosexual for example, or cutting off bits of genitalia etc

'Hitler was a Catholic, Nazi soldiers had Gott Mit Uns on their belt buckles, they were hardly atheists.'

Politics dressed up as religion.

Nazism was no more based on religion than Stalins Russia (which killed far more than the Nazis did).

The negative "rules" tend to be things from the society when the books were written, which some people take out of context. All the real "rules" of the main religions are about love, tolerance, respect, kindness etc.

If there was no religion the same people would be doing bad things, they'd just be using something else as an excuse to hide behind.

"
Politics dressed up as religion.

Nazism was no more based on religion than Stalins Russia (which killed far more than the Nazis did)."

I never said Nazism was based on religion, I just said Hitler wasn't atheist and about the nazi belt buckles having God With Us engraved on them. It was in response to you saying about removing religion from society, I was pointing out you were wrong.

It's funny how if you are a woman or gay, those rules are bent quite significantly.