11 YO DD1 told not to bring Twilight book into school again because it's 'unchristian'

[AgentZigzag]

DD1s teacher from last year asked her what she was reading at playtime on Friday, DD1 told her it was 'New Moon' which we'd bought her for her birthday in December.

The teacher hurried off and had quiet words with the teacher taking her class this year, they both came back and said she wasn't in trouble, but they didn't want her to bring the book in again to school because it's at odds with the christian values of the school (it's C of E).

The teacher said she'd read the first Twilight book and it's fine if her mum and dad think it's OK for her to read it, but she didn't think it was for little girls and they'd 'get into trouble if anyone saw her reading it' (DD thought the trouble would be from the vicar, although I find this hard to believe).

There are a few things I feel a bit uncomfortable about -

-this teacher had asked DD what she was reading a few times when DD took in the first Twilight book in, and just smiled and said nothing.

-they're actively encouraged to read Harry Potter books, and if you're banning Twilight because it's 'unchristian' then shouldn't that go for HP as well, and anything else with fantasy characters in? So no more fairies or Father Christmas then.

-DD was reading it at playtime, so nothing to do with lessons. Are they expecting her to spread dissent on what the Evil books are about or something?

-I feel they're somehow insinuating we're being unchristian letting her read them, although I couldn't care less about them judging me on my religious views, it annoys me because it seems a bit of a random rule when she's gone all the way through the school and no other judgments on our christian values have been mentioned.

I'm pretty much hands off when it comes to school, letting them get on with their job and do what they ask of me re homework etc. So I'm not planning on storming down there to confront them or anything, but this has really got on my wick and I'm posting to try and sort out what I think about it really.

Am I being unreasonable?

Sorry, Rational - all clear now. :) However, I still disagree. Surely religion is much more a matter of opinion than maths or even most of English?

In my opinion, based on the fact there's not a shred of evidence in favour of god's existence, I would rather children weren't told it was true by the people they are expected to trust second only to their immediate family. Little children's minds are like sponges, if teacher tells them something as truth they will have a very hard time disputing that, that may happen later if the child is brought up with a questioning mind but that often doesn't happen. I'd rather my children didn't have to go through that confusion.

sieglinde - I am afraid I think you are being deeply naïve about the extent of religious indoctrination in faith schools, and its dangers.

If that's so why aren't more people still Christian? Lots of people go to faith schools and emerge without faith. The problem might be outside the school altogether (with ma and pa)- but this can't be your problem, since I bet you have told your children your views.

I think it's actually a great idea to send kids to a school a bit at variance with home - my bet is that mindless conformity arises when there is too perfect a fit between home and school.

And I dispute that kids are like sponges. They are no more like sponges than older people. This is the same bullshit kind of comment as indoctrination.

Where you have schools that indoctrinate (not all faith schools do), you have a lot of practicing Christians.

It is very easy, when you live in a fundamentally liberal environment, to fondly believe that your open-mindedness and ability to dispassionately examine the world around you are a product of "maturity" and that all adults get there by virtue of age. They don't. Illiberal, indoctrinating environments stifle people's ability to grow into liberal adults (just as those environments intend!).

Just out of interest, and I don't know whether this applies to you Bonsoir, but how do 'athiests' go about providing a balanced objective view of religion to their children so they can make up their own minds?

Because in my experience, people who don't believe in God are similar to those who do in steering their children towards believing the same as they do.

Would you allow your 16 year old to believe that Santa still brought her presents? I'd like to think you'd be 'fessing up by that age that Santa is a myth along with fairies etc. Why you think I should give god a special dispensation in allowing my child to be open minded about it I have no idea. It's truly a puzzle, I'd encourage her to be no more open minded about god than leprechauns.

Let me put it simply, the only difference to me between the god myth and Santa is that adults don't perpetuate the myth when the child naturally grows out of it.

How do you know there are no leprechauns? You don't. You've only been told. How do you know there are neutrinos? You don't. You've only been told.

I have seen scientific evidence for neutrinos (I watch Horizon ;-)). I have seen no evidence for leprechauns.

In a scientific age, reasonable scientifically-demonstrated evidence is good enough for me!

AgentZigzag - our household has two religious heritages, Anglicanism and Judaism; one of our children attends, for the time being, a secular school (where multiple religions and cultures co-exist) and the other two, for the time being, a Catholic school (having previously attended a secular school); those two have also done their Bar Mitzvah, which requires a significant investment.

I think that all the children are quite well exposed to various trains of thought.

What you mean is that you have seen Horizon and you trust it to represent scientific truth, but this is not the same as knowing of your own knowledge; it simply means you rely on the programme's authority. Conversely, if Ould Grannie O'Rourke told you she'd seen the Little Folk, it would not alter your belief. Once people believed in the Bible as an authority in exactly the same way.

Reasonable scientifically demonstrated evidence is being overturned all the time as we speak, because that's how science works. Since isn't a static thing but a process, often a violent one. Heads-up for the paradigm shift.

I wasn't responding to that post, sieglinde (cross posts).

No, I wasn't to yours either, Bonsoir. Sounds a perfect mixture - well done!

More by happy accident than by design

I've changed my username, was Rational, still am but just not called it anymore.

I don't just watch tv programmed and blindly trust their content any more than I would read a book and blindly trust the content. I trust that the scientists who discovered the neutrino tested and retested and got all their scientist peers to test to verify it's existence.

Dies that clear it up?

D'uh, does not dies, bloody iPhone again.

I'd be impressed with the school if they launched a discussion on what a shitty view of the world and human relationships is peddled by Twilight (eg that abuse, stalking and being killed by your boyfriend are 'romantic').
But Twilight vs Christianity? Both suck.

AgentZigZag, send her to a normal school and she can read what she likes unincumbered by the ridiculous world view with which she will be inculcated at a faith school.

Frankly I don't know how you have the temerity to moan about stuff this when you send your child to a faith school TBH. It comes with the territory. Do you really expect these schools to be reasonable?

She is at a 'normal' school Perri.

There is a good reason she's not at the closer state school, and I've been more than happy with the education and guidance they've given her since she was 5.

I'm don't know how you have the temerity to come on the thread I've started and moan about me moaning (I hate the word moan, along with nag, whine, whinge and witter)

I really don't get all this faith school=indoctrination lark.

I accept there may be a small minority of schools which are unhelpful and unthinking in the way they present matters of faith, and that in the past many Catholic schools particularly were pretty shitty in the way they treated dc.

But nowadays CofE schools - really, are pretty fluffy and not a whole lot different to state schools. They just have little slots where they ask children to think about the nice world they live in and say thanks. And that's about it. They teach about other religions in about the same balance as state schools.

Mostly, that is. I am aware there are exceptions.

Twilight unchristian? What a load of tosh. Children should be encouraged to read whatever they want to read and form their own opinions on books. Twilight may be appallingly written but a lot of girls this age love it and it keeps them reading. However my dd is 11 and I won't be giving it her to read yet, simply because she hasn't the maturity to deal with the whole sexual side. She loves HP and Philip Pullman stuff, neither of which I would describe as 'unchristian'. What is 'unchristian' in any case? Christians believe all are made in God's image, so any good literature, art etc is necessarily God inspired. Oh hold on, I said good didn't I - possibly then that excludes Twilight - ah yes

Madhair, you must know how often we get threads caused by a teacher pronouncing on an issue of faith as if it was fact and such out of line behaviour. And no, a lot of them don't follow the SACRE - they can do what they want with RE.

I know Grimma, but I would be interested in some statistics as to how representative this is of Church schools in general. I suspect it's not as high as is made out. But I may be wrong. :) However - if they don't follow the SACRE or whatever the local RE syllabus is they'll get a bollocking from both Ofsted and the diocesan inspector wotsits - so not sure how many really can do what they want.

"They just have little slots where they ask children to think about the nice world they live in and say thanks. And that's about it."

Waaaay too much for me. No way is my daughter thanking someone else's imaginary friend for a natural occurrence. It's the little bits like that that worm their way into kid's heads, you call it fluffy, I call it indoctrination, however minor.