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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To wonder why "Ms" seems to mean more than the opposite of "Mr"?

97 replies

mamhaf · 21/01/2012 22:50

I've kept my maiden names, so I'm Ms Mamhaf - haven't been a Miss for many years and Mrs Mamhaf would be my mother.

So, why would the shop assistant filling in a storecard application for me say: "you're separated then?" after I'd given her my title as Ms? (marital status was another box for her to tick)

And then give me a quizzical look when I answered, "no, married"?

OP posts:

Bossybritches22 · 21/01/2012 23:37

Startail

If your happy to take hiss name and wear his ring then surely your are traditional enough to be mrs.

Nothing to do with that- would gladly have reverted to my maiden name but I felt it easier and kinder to have the same name as my DD's. Also I had been Mrs Bossybritches for more of my adult life than I had as Miss maiden name

pennypencil · 21/01/2012 23:38

you can!

pennypencil · 21/01/2012 23:38

gah- you can change your first name I meant

ElaineReese · 21/01/2012 23:41

Oh yeah, I know, but it would be a pain... And my first name is my own too, really. I just don't like it, whereas I'm quite fond of my last name.

ElaineReese · 21/01/2012 23:42

Oh yeah, I know, but it would be a pain... And my first name is my own too, really. I just don't like it, whereas I'm quite fond of my last name.

RevoltingPeasant · 21/01/2012 23:58

Elaine, me too - 'Peasant' is quite distinguished, but Revolting - just don't know what my parents were thinking....

neepsntatties · 22/01/2012 04:11

I dislike ms but don't want say mrs or miss. Recently it's been annoying me so much I have been ticking the 'Lady' box. Maybe I'll just pick a random title each time from now on.

AThingInYourLife · 22/01/2012 04:19

I always think of Mrs being the form of address for divorced women.

When there was a special form for addressing them, that was it.

Ms is clearly a form used by women (and girls, I adopted it at 12) who think their form of address should not be a badge of marital status, but of maturity (as with men).

SlinkingOutsideInFrocks · 22/01/2012 04:53

I am Mrs Husband's surname and do feel like I'm massively letting the side down.

I'd always been a Ms and then kept my own name for a while after marriage, but changed it before we had children as I was keen for us to all have the same family name. No expectation from DH at all.

I have no problem with Ms whatsoever but it's disingenuous to think it doesn't have strong connotations and the Stepford types do rush to disassociate themselves from it. The inherent unfairness of males defaulting to Mr on maturity and never having to reveal their marital status, and women not having the same thing bugs me no end.

To my mind, the best option would be for women to simply revert to Mrs past a certain age the way men do with Mr. Same as with frauline/frau; mademoiselle/madam.

AThingInYourLife · 22/01/2012 05:23

Why didn't you choose your name as the family name you all shared?

Did you discuss that, or was is just presumed to be your DH's prerogative?

I sometimes feel I let the side down by giving my children DH's surname. It was something we discussed, and we each were happy to use the other's surname. DH couldn't see why it should be his rather than mine (correct :) )

But he's an only boy, his sister uses her married name and his Dad (recently deceased at the time) had no siblings. His father's father disappeared when he was a child, so no contact with that part of the family. So it felt like a decision to end his family name, which seemed sad.

I know I'll end up being Mrs

mousyMouse · 22/01/2012 07:51

oh, good idea, lets ditch miss/ms/mrs and replace with lady.
lady smith and mr jones has a nice ring to it.

marriedinwhite · 22/01/2012 08:18

If you are married presumably you wear a wedding ring so it should be perfectly obvious to see if a woman girl lady female is married or not regardless of the title.

We will never all agree on this one. I was perfectly happy to take DH's name and am perfectly happy to be Mrs DH; if I hadn't been I'm not sure I would have married him in the first place but then I am very old. Until I married I was a Miss because that denoted the fact that I wasn't married and I didn't have a problem with it. When I was in my 20s though it used to make me smile that so many of my contemporaries were using ms because it was anonymous and more professional. I think they were the ones who really really wanted to be married and hated still being a miss.

I have a very successful friend, consultant surgeon and all that. At work she is Miss Maiden name and at home she is Mrs DH. I can understand that completely.

FredFredGeorge · 22/01/2012 08:45

mamhof but lots of french people do not like the Madam/Mademoiselle, and nor is it simply done by age as it's also a sign of marriage like here, it's used differently though - so in a restaurant where no waiter is ever going to address you simply as "Mrs" or "Miss", they will do it with "Madame" or "Mademoiselle".

I'd never heard the Ms means divorced. And no a wedding ring is surely not sufficient indication of if someone is married or not - it's just a ring, and there's lots of reasons why you might not wear one. I've never understood why anyone would want to change their name simply because they got married - and I'm glad DW didn't or I'd've probably been quite

mousyMouse · 22/01/2012 08:51

ring is no indication. when I wasn't married I wore a ring because I was working in a macho environment

dollymixtures · 22/01/2012 09:20

People keep saying Ms is the form of address for divorced women but I don't know any divorced women who uses Ms and I know quite a few

samandi · 22/01/2012 09:31

Well that shop assistant was rather (i) stupid and (ii) unprofessional.

Ms does currently mean more than the opposite of Mr because of many people's inability to grasp the concept that it is a neutral title.

gamerwidow · 22/01/2012 09:34

As ffg says the french system is just as controversial and feminists are campaigning to get Mademoiselle banned as a title news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4905072.stm

I think until Ms becomes the norm than some people are always going to see it as loaded. Personally I think you should be able to call yourself whatever you like without people making judgements.

Original poster

mamhaf · 22/01/2012 09:55

Marriedinwhite...I have friends who use their maiden name at work and mrs husband's name at home, and many moons ago, I thought about doing that too.

But, I thought it would cause hassle to have two names, especially as I travel for work. Does it?

I don't bother correcting people who call me mrs husbandsname or mrsmyname, even though, after well over 20 years, we still get that on Christmas cards.. (I know there was another long thread on this).

It's also quite a good bullshit filter for cold callers..if someone calls me mrs husbandsname on the phone, they're trying to sell me something.

OP posts:

dollymixtures · 22/01/2012 10:03

That was badly phrased. It should read "...quite a few divorced women". Phone posting, sorry

yashie · 22/01/2012 10:07

I think this is crazy! Not like your all crazy, just something if never spent time thinking about. I don't understand what everyone has against miss to be honest. I'll be Miss till I get married, then Mrs. Why do people care so much about labels and what other people think of them? I couldn't care less wether people know I'm married or not. Surely a wedding ring gives that away anyway...

FlangelinaBallerina · 22/01/2012 10:11

Yousankmybattleship it would appear that actually, at least one person cares about the OPs marital status. The shop assistant. Sneering fail.

AThingInYourLife · 22/01/2012 10:29

I don't wear a wedding ring, and I'm married.

lurkinginthebackground · 22/01/2012 11:04

My dh doesn't wear a wedding ring, he does have one though, and no it does not bother me in the slightest. People know he is married, he doesn't wear any jewellery at all, not even a watch and yes he does have one of those too.

I also know plenty of unmarried, in fact never been married, women who wear the full 3 engagement, wedding and eternity type (look alike??) rings.

Bossybritches22 · 22/01/2012 11:19

yashie I would have agreed with you up until I got married.

I was Miss, then Mrs. I am now divorced and don't wish to be reminded of the failure if my marriage ( just my hang-up) and at 51 I'm too old to be a "Miss".

I tend to just use first name/surname when I introduce myself without title, but if I am pushed I use Ms.

I have always been arsey about giving out personal information.

If the person shows they need it for statistical/medical/legal reasons I will share it but otherwise I withold it, no ones business but mine.

Which is why I HATE being labelled married/single/divorced it should just be married/single unless there is a specific reason for needing to know otherwise.

HazleNutt · 22/01/2012 11:52

Of course Ms does not mean divorced. It just means "my marital status is in no way relevant when applying for a store card".

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