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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To wonder why "Ms" seems to mean more than the opposite of "Mr"?

97 replies

mamhaf · 21/01/2012 22:50

I've kept my maiden names, so I'm Ms Mamhaf - haven't been a Miss for many years and Mrs Mamhaf would be my mother.

So, why would the shop assistant filling in a storecard application for me say: "you're separated then?" after I'd given her my title as Ms? (marital status was another box for her to tick)

And then give me a quizzical look when I answered, "no, married"?

OP posts:

RevoltingPeasant · 21/01/2012 23:09

battleship at it meaning you're divorced.

Of course it bloody doesn't. It means you don't want to specify marital status. My mum is divorced and she is still Mrs Peasant - and I am unmarried and Ms.

mumnotmachine · 21/01/2012 23:13

I think it depends on what youve been brought up with- its always been Ms after divorce in my upbringing- you keep your married name if you have children, and revert to maiden name if no children.
Have never really questioned it, just the way it is

Auntiestablishment · 21/01/2012 23:13

I use Miss, though I don't like it (seems too childish/old-maidish) as I dislike Ms more.
I agree - Ms does mean more than the opposite of Mr. It is a Statement. Of something. not sure what

Bossybritches22 · 21/01/2012 23:15

I have used Ms for years before, during & after my marriage.

It has always galled me that as a boy you are Master, then when you grow out of shorts you become Mr & stay so all your life regardless of marital status. If the need arises to clarify your marital status for a specific legal/medical reason you can do so.

As a girl you had to be "labelled" so your marital status was obvious to society,and presumably to any male suitors. As we have progressed to the 21 century we have no need to label women thus.

However no-one could come up with an acceptable new rule so Ms was invented, which I don't particularly like but prefer to the alternatives.

I once worked in a hospital where your name badge had to be
" Mrs/Miss Bossybritches -Ward Sister "
which so got my goat that I chose Ms just to annoy them.

I also feel now I am divorced, I am single. Why do forms ask if you are married/single/divorced as if one is in limbo as a divorcee?

Spuddybean · 21/01/2012 23:15

when i got married i kept my name and became a Ms Bean rather than a Miss Bean but my family were very angry/confused. (even tho it was their name i was keeping) My sister told me i was disgusting!

Anyway, i got my post addressed either to Mrs Bean (would have meant i married my dad - wrong!) or Mrs Husbands Name. No amount of explaining changed this

I am divorced now and still get the same. I am getting remarried and we are double barrelling - i am bemused at what i may be in store for...Mrs Whore probably!

WorraLiberty · 21/01/2012 23:16

Double barrel names used to be posh but now they're most common in families where the parents aren't married.

What I wonder is, what happens when two people with double barrel names get married?

Do they drop one name each or go for the complete gob full?

RevoltingPeasant · 21/01/2012 23:16

Auntie trouble is, if you do a PhD, people think you're a wanker if you call yourself Dr.

mumnot how weird, I don't mean in a narky way, but just how different people's upbringings are! I have used 'Ms' since my teens and it'd never occur to me to change my name on marriage. Not a statement, just wouldn't consider it an option. Never heard that about the NC post-divorce if you had children. Huh. My mum hasn't NC but her children are all in their 20s/ 30s and I don't think she CBA.

mumnotmachine · 21/01/2012 23:18

LOL Worra- that could be well confusing!!!!

Original poster

mamhaf · 21/01/2012 23:18

We've been married more than 20 years btw and this is the first time to my knowledge that anyone's made the assumption that I'm separated or divorced, so I did find it surprising.

OP posts:

ElaineReese · 21/01/2012 23:21

My name is my name, I wouldn't change it. I don't care if people think its wank if I say doctor my name instead of mrs dp's name, I am Elaine reese with a phd, and that is my surname and my title. Keep using it and perhaps eventually the idiots who think its weird will have to start understanding.

Auntiestablishment · 21/01/2012 23:21

RevoltingPeasant - I remember that thread... Still better than the Miss/Ms thing, though.

LanceCorporalBoiledEgg · 21/01/2012 23:22

The reason is because some people are a bit thick, and can't seem to get their head around a title for a female that doesn't indicate their marital status.

mumnotmachine · 21/01/2012 23:22

I dont think your being narky Revolting, my Mum was quite old fashioned, as was her mother, and marriage was for life, it was almost a badge of disgrace to be called Ms.
We are all different though- I personally am of the opinion you can call yourself whatever you like. If I got divorced though I would become a Ms, but keep my married name! (But wouldnt see it as a badge of disgrace)

breathedeeply · 21/01/2012 23:23

I feel strongly that women shouldn't be defined by their marital status (after all, men aren't) and so I've always used Ms. I also kept my maiden name, and my children took my surname but have their father's surname as a middle name. This confuses doctors no end (my surgery automatically lists me as Mrs based on my marital status). Last year, I was visited by a police officer and a social worker after my youngest DC said that my DH had pushed her. I was amazed (she wasn't injured and they were only playing). It turned out that everyone had assumed that he was not her biological father because they had different surnames. The policeman apologised and left, saying: "well I've never heard of someone not changing their name when they got married before." it was like he'd stepped out of the 1950s!

RevoltingPeasant · 21/01/2012 23:24

ElaineReese · 21/01/2012 23:26

Only an idiot would think less of you for not being mrs, or for using a title you'd worked for instead of married. And who cares what an idiot thinks?

catsareevil · 21/01/2012 23:26

YANBU. I have no idea why people seem to find it so confusing. Why should women reveal their marital status with their title?

Even better if you can use a title that doesnt indicate gender either.

WorkingClassMum · 21/01/2012 23:27

I am divorced, but not from FOB - we aren't married. (confused?)

I've been a Ms since leaving my father's house, I was a Ms when I was married and I am a Ms though happily partnered for 16 years

My DC have DP's surname.

I think it's upto a person how they wish to be known and as no one ever needs to know if a man is married/partnered/a father, then no one need know my status either IYKWIM.

ShreddingCarbs · 21/01/2012 23:28

I was Ms before we married and Ms afterwards. It didn't occur to me to change my name (or wear a ring, come to that!) My marital status is my business and my husband's and I have no idea why people think I should change my title to reflect it.

Actually, I prefer not to use titles at all and tend to use Shredding Carbs rather than Ms Shredding Carbs.

Our children have my surname with DH's as a middle name. DH thinks the whole Mrs/Miss thing is strange, too. He'd be very surprised if I started calling myself Mrs DH'sname.

I don't think you are being unreasonable at all to wonder, though, as lots of people load Ms with all sorts of random meaning.

startail · 21/01/2012 23:31

It means your a feminist, don't like being treated like your 16 or you are or have been married, but kept your maiden name.
Can't conceive why anyone would be Ms married name unless divorced.
If your happy to take hiss name and wear his ring then surely your are traditional enough to be mrs.
The woman at work who was Mrs maiden name confused me totally. Ms would have made more sense. Keeping maiden or old married names was totally normal because I worked with published scientists. The whole science citations index breaks if you don't always publish in the same name. Lots of the women we of course Dr X which side-steeps the problem nicely.

startail · 21/01/2012 23:33

Sorry, lots of typos, listening to DCs and wondering if they want anything.

ShreddingCarbs · 21/01/2012 23:33

Glad to know it's not just us who did my surname as a surname and their dad's surname as a middle name, breathedeeply. People seem to feel it was an unusual choice but seemed perfectly sensible to us!

randommoment · 21/01/2012 23:36

Despite being a Daily Telegraph reading WI attending SAHM, I've been Ms since I left school, and have no intention of changing, whatever marriage or divorce I might have been through along the way. DD's are double barrelled with father's name, they can choose which one (or both, or neither) to keep if they want to change status later in life, that's their choice, not mine.
OTH I've given up correcting the butcher when he calls me Mrs Random, life really is too short. Even though the only real Mrs Randoms are my mum and her sister in law! (Grandfather from extremely foreign parts, have googled and we're definitely the only ones in the UK with our surname).

Original poster

mamhaf · 21/01/2012 23:36

I like the way the French deal with this btw - if you're a young woman, it's Mademoiselle, Madame if you're older - similar to Master/Mr here.

OP posts:

ElaineReese · 21/01/2012 23:36

I suppose you might change your name so all the family wou,d have the same, but be ms so that when you meet people and say,I'm Jane smith, you're not overtly being all 'married woman'. But I wouldn't change my name anyway, it's my bloody NAME!
If I could change my first name I would, though!

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