Or is my mum, or my DP?

[brodyboo]

I work full time and my mum helps my partner with the care of our DDs aged 2 and 3.5. I dropped them off at my mums yesterday on the way to work at twelve and DP was picking them up at four.

I got home last night at Ten and DP said my mum had a right go at him for being abusive towards DD1, he said she wouldnt put her shoes on and kept throwing them at his face so he picked her up and plopped her on the couch and put her shoes on himself, he said he wasnt excactly gentle but certainly not abusive, he does admit he lost his temper.

On the phone to mum this morning she says he picked her up roughly by her arm and dumped her on the couch, then put on her shoes, that this is child abuse and I should not be leaving the children alone with him and this incident is clearly a marker that other things could happen.

As background my partner is young, 23, and our two girls are close together.
He did struggle at first but over the past year I have watched him blossom into a father who clearly loves and enjoys spending time with his children, they are excited to see him if he has been out and love playing with him, taking dogs out etc,

My mum has been fabulous and I quite simply wouldnt have survived the past few years without her, she does however care for my girls to the point of obsession, I am often ignored for the first five minutes after my arrival while she clucks over them and, if in company any questions vistors or family ask about the girls, she shouts over me to answer as if she were their mother. I have just ignored it as I am so gratefull for all she has done.

I am very annoyed with my DP if has handled DD so roughly and we will have very strong words tonight, but I see how he is with them normally and how happy and relaxed they are in his company.
I suppose I am asking if my mum IBU in suggesting this could be a sign of further abuse or just being a bit hysterical, thanks if you have read this far, very long!!!!!

I think it depends on HOW rough he actually was.

Sometimes things look rougher than they are, and whilst its not always a 'good thing' it doesn't always equate to abuse.

I have vivid memories of folding DS1 in half to get him in the buggy, restraining DS2 when he was having a major tantrum and lashing out, picking them up and hoiking them over my shoulder to escape a supermarket etc.,

Your DP probably was OTT, but so is your mum. On face value.

I'd have very stern words with him OP. I think I would have reacted like your mum here, he was rough with her due to losing his temper, this is not on.

For me it would be a question of what he is generally like- when you say "further abuse" do you actually mean he has been abusive in the past? How do your dcs seem?

To me, putting a child on a couch and putting their shoes on against their will would not seem child abuse in itself, but it would depend on exactly how angry the father was and whether the child was frightened- and on any possible baggage from the past.

But the scenario of your mum helping your partner sounds like a nightmare anyway: just bound to end in misunderstandings and mutual criticism. My dh is the gentlest and most tolerant man on earth but I know he has to bite his tongue when my mother doles out advice on child rearing.

Like aldiwhore I have certainly imposed physical force on dcs, my cheerful and gentle father did the same, I was sometimes angry but never frightened as a child.

But it all depends on degree and manner.

It sounds like your DP was angry and overreacted slightly but to be honest I don't think there's any person in the world who hasn't been slightly rough with a mardy toddler especially when shoes are involved (what is it with bloody shoes!!). I think it would be a good idea to have a word with him tonight about keeping calm and see how he reacts. If he admits he was wound up and went a bit too far, I'd say it was fine and just keep an eye on the situation in the future. If he says she deserved it and doesn't see anything wrong with it, then I'd worry.

TBH though it sounds like your mum is the real problem - she seems to have gotten a bit too involved with your DDs and perhaps sees DP as competition?

A three year old throwing shoes into someones face is naughty behaviour, and would be enough to make most parents lose their temper.

It doesnt sound abusive to me, and your mum sounds like she is stirring it a bit to be quite honest.

You're in a tough spot aren't you?

If you side with your mum you're going to alienate your DP.

But if your DP was being rough you have to act on that so you have a conundrum.

Your DP doesn't have to parent the way your mum wants even if she's being helpful.

Thanks for replys, no he has not been abusive in the past nor have I seen any evidence of abusive beheaviour, towards me or the children, I havnt seen him much because I was ready for bed last night when I arrived home and he was out very early this morning,

I am in no way excusing him loosing his temper but DD1 always plays up at at my mums house, she gets her way all the time and gran is always there to back her up, my mum is always scrutinising his interactions with the girls aswell as if she is waiting for him to slip up, she is a completley different child at home.

It does depend on how rough he was entirely. However if she was pulling to get away then he may have been rougher than he intended too.

What you say about your mum in caring to "the point of obsession" makes me suspect she probably is BU. Has she reacted before when you've had to tell them off in front of her?

Think about what he would usually do if your dd1 was behaving like that when you're around? I'd certainly have done something similar, picked them up, sat them down and put their shoes on, and from both their descriptions that's what happened. Your mum is construing it as abuse, he is saying he was firm but fair. Probably the truth is in the middle.

Is your mother prone to exaggerating at all? The "caring for them to the point of obsession" thing made me raise my eyebrows a bit. Tbh I'd probably trust his explanation more than hers since he is the one who is more rational. Her thinking that he's an abusive parent in the making is probably tied into her feelings about your children and I reckon she's way overreacting in relation to this.

I think you should approach this calmly rather than rushing in with "strong words" and being ready to be annoyed. Find out what happened in greater detail and talk about it.

In all honesty it sounds like she has a vested interest in making out your partner is abusive, even if she really believes it. She already tries to undermine you, why wouldn't she do the same to him?

I don't think it was abusive. I am afraid if my toddler threw their shoes at me (which they have done on occasion) I would have picked up, plonked and probably shouted to boot.

I think your mum is perhaps overreacting slightly here.

This might sound ridiculous so i'm putting my tin hat on now in case any duckers get launched at my head.

Imagine your DP telling you that his mum decided you weren't up to the job and you were angry and lost your temper?

How would you react?

It's very hard dealing with a stroppy 3 year old and since you didn't see what happened I wouldn't be having strong words with your do. I'd say that I'd heard about dd stropping and see what he says.

Your mum comes across as shit stirring. Is it her way of getting the girls to spend more time with her and your dp out of the picture?

If you saw him go Ott my advice would be different.

I'd have had a smack legs too if i'd thrown shoes at my mum and fwiw OP I wouldn't mind betting your mum would have done the same when you were little. GP seem to have morphed into Mary Poppins lately and yet I remember quite a lot of us 70's and 80's children getting a regular clout which we parents today wouldn't dream of.

Thanks everyone, I did myself think it was prob my mum at the heart of it, DD1 would have been playing up and throwing her shoes because she was at grans house, and she can do anything she wants there, my mum would have been watching DP intently waiting to see how he reacted, no wonder he got stressed!!
Oh and if I ever have to repremand girls at mums she is all over them, "oh my darling, come here" etc etc

I will still be talking to DP though, it will never happen again!

TBH if my DS kept throwing shoes in my face I would be cross too. Of course it depends on how roughly he put her on the sofa but no, it doesnt sound like abuse to me...sounds like your mum doing a spot of shit stirring and wanting to be the best granny in the world!

Hmm, does your mum have to be quite so involved? I'm not sure why you're having strong words with your DP on your mum's say-so: I'd be really annoyed if DH had a go at me because of a report from his mother about how I'd been with DS. Especially since you acknowledge that she undermines you both by letting your DD do what she likes at her house.

I would be careful how you phrase it BrodyBoo, he is not your child he does have some say in how he deals with a stroppy madam who won't put her shoes not.

I would be really careful in how you approach this with your partner because if you go off on one at him, about a situation that you didnt see, and are just taking your mums word for how "rough" he really was, you could be opening up a wider rift between your partner and your mum as well as causing a row between the two of you.

As Foglike just said, imagine if it was your partners mother, telling him that you were being abusive.

What would you have done in the situation that happened?

I'd be speaking to your DD as well and explaining that you do not throw shoes in peoples faces! If you know that DD plays up when she is in your mums you need to address that too. Personally if I was getting shoes thrown in my face I would have either made her walk without them or forcibly put them on. I can imagine it is quite difficult for your DP having your mum watching his every move to see how he deals with DD

I know I am on my partners side but he did admit he lost his temper and I want to talk that through and ways to deal with it without getting rough handed ( I know we have all been there in heat of the moment)

I guess the best thing I can do is not put him in that situation anymore, I am thinking of speaking to work to get put on backshift so one of us would always be at home.

Its sad, my mum has helped us as a family so much I have overlooked things that I probably should have nipped in the bud, now its gone to far

Brody,

On what basis will you "talk tough" to your "D"P? He seems to be the SAH parent and surely he should be able to parent like he wants, within reason. Why do you perceive yourself to be his boss? Picking a toddler up by an arm and forcing them to put their shoes on sounds quite measured to me, given that she THREW HER SHOES IN HIS FACE. I think maybe it is you and your mother who need to consider drawing some boundaries for your children.

And, as for the perennial accusation of abuse for something well within the parameters of normal parenting.....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

My instinct says your mum is BU.

Look - we ALL as mothers, have had that moment when we have just had enough of the kiddy crap and we are angry! Throwing shoes in MY face, after a long day of work, when all I wanted to do was go home, could well be one of those trigger points.
We have ALL shouted or been rougher than we needed to be at one point or other. I don't smack my kids, and barely ever have to raise my voice....but even I have met with a handful of 'those' occasions in my time, over three kids.

I think this is what happened to your dh. Your mum probably needs to back off a little and remember what is is actually like being the parent.

Good luck brodyboo hope everything works out for you.