to wonder how my mum can still be friends with this woman?

[SadDaughter]

Hello,

I'm posting here as I would like the opinions of other mums. I hope that is okay.

When I was six, I had a normal (two-sided) squabble with one of my schoolfriends. I think it was over felt tip pens or something equally as trivial. It was the kind of argument that would have been forgotten by the next day. Our parents had already arranged for me to go over to her house after school that day, so her mum picked us up and then when we got to her house she noticed that we weren't really talking to each other much. She took her daughter aside and asked her what was going on. She then marched back into the room, bent down right in front of my face and starting yelling at me. She called me a bully, said that it was unacceptable for anyone to bully her daughter, that because I was a bully I'd never have any friends, I was a horrible girl. It felt like she was shouting for hours but it was probably only a minute or two. I was absolutely terrified. When she had stopped she left the room and I went and got my coat and shoes on and sat by the door waiting for my mum to arrive.

When my mum arrived I begged to go home but the mum invited her in for a cup of tea, as though nothing had happened. My mum did asked the usual "how did she behave?" type question and the other mum said that everything had been fine, that me and her daughter had had a disagreement at school but that she had dealt with it. On the way home I tried to tell my mum what had happened but she just thought I was being melodramatic.

We'd often socialise with the same families, including this woman. All the children would play together but if anyone misbehaved or there were any problems, this woman would always be the one to intervene and accuse me of causing it. (I know this sounds like I am being melodramatic but my dad and my sister noticed this too, and have commented on it since). My mum knew this was going on but she never said anything. The other children soon realised that they could get out of anything by saying that I had "made" them do it or "bullied" them. (Again, my sister and my dad have both mentioned this since). And this mum told other parents that I was a bully/troublemaker etc. too so soon I became the scapegoat for everything.

I'm not blaming this woman for all of my life's problems, but this situation really affected me all through school, especially because her daughter was in my class until sixth form. In primary school I was mercilessly bullied by this girl, and her best friend, because they knew they'd get away with it by saying I bullied them, and when I made friends outside of the circle, these girls would end up bullying them too so no one wanted to be my friend. I began to believe that I really didn't deserve friends, and I now still have massive trust issues and to be quite honest I don't really have any close friends.

My mum still socialises this woman.

I have tried to bring up how I feel with my mum, and my sister and dad have mentioned they noticed the behaviour. But everyone just laughs it off and so I feel like I have to too. I know I should probably be over it by now but it was just such a painful experience.

I think it's too late now (it was about 15 years ago now). Realistically I can't ask her to not be friends with this woman because it would probably affect a lot of friendships and if my mum were to mention this to the woman it would probably cause a lot of trouble. But still, part of me just feels so betrayed every time my mum invites this woman into her/our home (I'm away at university now so only live at home in the holidays). Every time I see her I go back to feeling like that six year old who just wants to disappear.

I don't know if this woman actually believes she was doing anything wrong. Part of me understands that she was trying to protect her daughter from a perceived threat. But her behaviour was so extreme given that it resulted from one incident, and she only had her daughter's word for what happened. I am not a mother so maybe I don't understand the level of protectiveness that mothers can experience, but I have worked with children a lot and I can't imagine that I would ever treat a child in that way, regardless of what they had done.

I'm not sure exactly what I'm asking for, I guess I just want to know how other mothers would react to this situation.

Sorry this is so long, and thank you to anyone who has read it and replies.

I think the issue here really is that as a child you trust your parents to protect you and take your side. Well, your mother did not. She has in fact ignored it.

I think once you work out just WHY she ignored it and sided with the "perpetrator" rather than protect you and back you up, you might be able to move on.

I am sorry, but your mother is pretty SHIT for failing to protect and support her child and just brush it under the carpet and make light of it.

The fact that she still appear to value a woman who can DO such a thing to a child, over her own child, is another kick in the teeth.

Ermno - being bullied all the way through school, and the effects that that has had on the OP's life is FAR from trivial, and I cannot understand anyone being so nastily dismissive.

I was bullied all the way through senior school, and was suicidal at age 14 - and have been suicidal many times since too. It's only thanks to antidepressants and over two years of therapy that I am gradually crawling out of the black pit that has blighted my entire life. So my heart goes out to the OP - especially about the issue of parents not supporting you. I told my mum I was being bullied, and was told to ignore it, that it would stop if the bullies saw it wasn't affecting me, and that 'Sticks and stones would hurt my bones, but calling names wouldn't harm me' (bollocks, of course). I honestly felt I couldn't go back to my mum and tell her that it was still going on - I thought she'd just say I had failed to ignore them enough. And I couldn't go to the school because I was afraid that the bullying would get worse, and I couldn't face that without backup from my parents. So it went on for 5 long and miserable years, and the effects are still obvious in my life, 31 years after I left that school.

SDTG, I feel for you, I tried to kill myself at 14 too because of this. That's why I violently hate bullying now, being big enough and confident to do something about it and I do and will always do. DH worries I might get him filled in one day

"Although some things that have been said since do make me think it was slightly personal to me, or to the situation I was in"

Of course, you're bound to feel that way.

But it truly was never about you. I don't know the woman but I would stake my last penny on it!

If she had never known you, if she lived at the other end of the country - do you think that she would never have been like that with anyone? Do you think that some other child of some other friend would never have been treated like that? Do you think that it was something about you specifically that made her behave this way and if she had never known you, she would not have acted like her children could do no wrong and found scapegoats etc?

No. She would have been exactly the same. Because it's about her.

That's why it is not personal. It is not you.

I was also bullied aged 11-13, I have kind of blacked those years out, its like I did not exist. fortunately things did improve but for 3 years I was a sad, lonely little bullied child. You do carry it with you, if I even get any hint someone is bullying me I get very agressive back, I will NOT take any shit, have almost gone too far the other way. I also suffereed major self esteem issues and attempted suicide (rather craply!) aged 21. yada yada....

anyway, what I am trying to say is HAVE COUNSELLING and invest in this, it really helps you accept, and draw a line under stuff.

some stuff you need help with

I'd speak to my mum first and let her know why and what I was going to do, then I'd confront the woman. Seem's like you need to get it off your chest in order to move on from it.

I think you feel the injustice of it so strongly as a child. I remember being accused of something I didn't do, it hasn't affected me in adult life, but I sure remember it.

That's why, every time there's a thread on how it's so great if parents take matters into their own hands and threaten some perceived 'bully' I disagree with it, as a parent you don't always know if a child is definitely bullying yours, often children have disagreements between themselves, and the fall-out, in terms of potentially intimidating a small child who has really done not much wrong is just too great.

Being bullied is truely awful, something which stays with you through your adult years. My sis and one of my friends were bullied, it has affected them massively as adults, their self esteem being rock bottom.

When DS was about 6 one of my "friends" used to look after him once a week whilst I worked all day. He and her DS were best friends in the same class and she lives down our road. Anyway, she offered him a sweet once from a bowl, he chose one and she said he couldnt have that particular sweet because she only had one and it wasnt fair on her DS. Her DS said that was fine, he didnt want it and my DS could have it. She wouldnt let him have it and he created a fuss which I grant you he shouldnt have done. He went into the playroom and she went in after him, threw the sweet and him and told him to have it then! Needless to say, she never looked after him again and we are no longer friendds...not just because of that (we were friend for a year or so after) but it certainly contributed to the end of the friendship!

I dont think DS was particularly bothered, well maybe for a day or so, but I was and no way was I having an adult treating him like that.

I am totally with you on this one OP. When I was at secondary school, this quite strange Geography teacher used to have some sort of crush on me. It was noticed by my peers and my parents. My parents were really bothered by it. It caused a lot of heart ache and it was a very uncomfortable moment in my life.

Fast foward twenty years, went to visit my parents and the same Geography teacher was sat around their house, drinking coffee and general chit-chat.

When I asked my mum why she would let such a man in the house, she replied that 'it was such a long time ago and he's done this and that for charity and he goes to church....blah blah blah'.

I realised from that moment on, my parents have absolutely no loyalities. To anyone.

I would confront the woman and tell her EXACTLY what you think of her.You are an adult now

OP, I wouldn't confront her, I would just make a mental note to take any similar complaints from my own children seriously. What would you expect the outcome to be if you did challenge her now?

I was sexually assaulted as a 10/11 year old over an 18 month period. Not seriously, I'm not traumatised by it, but it happened. I told my mum exactly what was happening she said "he doesn't do that, don't be silly." In fact she only acted when the mother of a friend of mine phoned her to ask if I'd said anything to her because her daughter had told her about something that had happened to her too.

That's the way it was when we were young. Adults were believed and children weren't. No one took the word of a child over that of an adult. It's a lot easier for parents and children nowadays to challenge unacceptable behaviour.

As far as my mum goes, the older I get, the less I am shocked and hurt by my mum's actions and behaviour. I find that is best for the sanity of all of us!

FolkGirl I'm not sure if you mean confront the woman or confront my mum. I definitely will not confront the woman as I don't think it would do anyone any good. I hadn't really been planning to bring this up with my mum either but there have been quite a few posters who suggested this so I think it might be worth gently letting her know how it felt. I have been mulling this over all day as this morning it seemed like a good way to get closure now I wonder if perhaps it would just cause unnecessary upset.

I'm going to sort through things myself, I got a leaflet about the university counselling service so I'm going to look into some help with the confidence issues etc. If I do choose to bring it up with my mum I will wait until after I've dealt with it. As you say, it won't really achieve anything as such - she can't change the past and neither can I.

I wouldn't address this woman, but i think you need to explain to your mum that all those years ago this lady told lies about you that weren't true, and that you weren't a bully.
I wouldn't speak to the evil cow woman, but i would call her evilbitchcow every time my mum mentioned her name, and i would never speak to her when i met her - she isn't your friend is she?
If your mum pulls you up on it for being rude just say'you know what she did to me, i cam calling a spade a spade'. don't make your mom feel awful - you just need her to hear you and believe you, not the evilbitch.
when anyone else raises say - it made my life hell actually.
and i would talk about it with your sister, because i think you could help offload her sense of guilt - she was younger than you, what could she have done? the fact she noticed and agrees with you it happened will let you both have some relief from this burden.
she may also not want said woman in the house, and you can support each other.
being bullied is horrid, it's happened to lots of us, you aren't alone, but you can move forward and have a great life now!

Sorry OP, I must have skimmed the posts too quickly I thought people were suggesting you confronted the woman.

Only you know if your mum would be receptive to a conversation about this, or not. I know mine wouldn't and would take it as a direct criticism of her (which it would be!) as so become very defensive. When she gets like that some of the things she says are reprehensible .

It's easy for people to dismiss this is as having happened a long time ago, but it was a significant incident that caused you to doubt your mum as a reliable constant in your life and interrupted the developing sense of your own self worth. I'm not surprised it's caused confidence issues - I doubt it was an isolated incident either .

Get counselling and get strong.

Sorry - too many smilies there! Got a bit carried away...

Honestly this seems to be eating you up a bit and I can totally understand that. Have you ever thought of confronting this woman when she is over seeing your mother? You are now an adult (and during the confrontation should strive to remain that way and not revert like we all do when in the presence of our mothers). Explain simply the truth of the matter and how much it has affected you. Its not about an apology but just an adult getting their point across. I think it will be like lancing a boil and I doubt that it will much matter to you after that if your mother is friends with her or not. I hope you can find some peace.

There's nothing worse than parents that cannot see when their own children are misbehaving. I know my 3 are terrors and I will only stick up for them to a certain point - and I probably get it wrong sometimes too - sticking up for them at times when they probably are to blame and not supporting them enough when they aren't - it's a minefield out there!

It's horrible to be blamed for something in such a nasty way - she didn't deal with the squabble effectively (although clearly in her mind she did!) but obviously it was a horrible thing to do and then gave everyone else an excuse to get away with murder which is bound to have an affect on the way you think/feel in future - but your mum is never going to listen and all you can do is let it slide now. You know the truth and others witnessed it and are on your side. Just avoid this woman - I bet she doesn't even remember the initial incident. As for your feelings for your mum - you just have to accept her friendship. Either she didn't want to see what this woman was really like or she knows but desperately needs that friendship in her life. I think we're all guilty of having people in our lives that we shouldn't have for whatever reason. I know at times I have had friends who have treated my children unfairly and I haven't said anything to the friend for fear of losing out on what was generally a good friendship (although I have always let the girls know that I wasn't really happy with said friend's behaviour towards them and tried to explain the difficulties in dealing with these friendships). The woman in question doesn't deserve your time thinking about her.