to wonder how my mum can still be friends with this woman?

[SadDaughter]

Hello,

I'm posting here as I would like the opinions of other mums. I hope that is okay.

When I was six, I had a normal (two-sided) squabble with one of my schoolfriends. I think it was over felt tip pens or something equally as trivial. It was the kind of argument that would have been forgotten by the next day. Our parents had already arranged for me to go over to her house after school that day, so her mum picked us up and then when we got to her house she noticed that we weren't really talking to each other much. She took her daughter aside and asked her what was going on. She then marched back into the room, bent down right in front of my face and starting yelling at me. She called me a bully, said that it was unacceptable for anyone to bully her daughter, that because I was a bully I'd never have any friends, I was a horrible girl. It felt like she was shouting for hours but it was probably only a minute or two. I was absolutely terrified. When she had stopped she left the room and I went and got my coat and shoes on and sat by the door waiting for my mum to arrive.

When my mum arrived I begged to go home but the mum invited her in for a cup of tea, as though nothing had happened. My mum did asked the usual "how did she behave?" type question and the other mum said that everything had been fine, that me and her daughter had had a disagreement at school but that she had dealt with it. On the way home I tried to tell my mum what had happened but she just thought I was being melodramatic.

We'd often socialise with the same families, including this woman. All the children would play together but if anyone misbehaved or there were any problems, this woman would always be the one to intervene and accuse me of causing it. (I know this sounds like I am being melodramatic but my dad and my sister noticed this too, and have commented on it since). My mum knew this was going on but she never said anything. The other children soon realised that they could get out of anything by saying that I had "made" them do it or "bullied" them. (Again, my sister and my dad have both mentioned this since). And this mum told other parents that I was a bully/troublemaker etc. too so soon I became the scapegoat for everything.

I'm not blaming this woman for all of my life's problems, but this situation really affected me all through school, especially because her daughter was in my class until sixth form. In primary school I was mercilessly bullied by this girl, and her best friend, because they knew they'd get away with it by saying I bullied them, and when I made friends outside of the circle, these girls would end up bullying them too so no one wanted to be my friend. I began to believe that I really didn't deserve friends, and I now still have massive trust issues and to be quite honest I don't really have any close friends.

My mum still socialises this woman.

I have tried to bring up how I feel with my mum, and my sister and dad have mentioned they noticed the behaviour. But everyone just laughs it off and so I feel like I have to too. I know I should probably be over it by now but it was just such a painful experience.

I think it's too late now (it was about 15 years ago now). Realistically I can't ask her to not be friends with this woman because it would probably affect a lot of friendships and if my mum were to mention this to the woman it would probably cause a lot of trouble. But still, part of me just feels so betrayed every time my mum invites this woman into her/our home (I'm away at university now so only live at home in the holidays). Every time I see her I go back to feeling like that six year old who just wants to disappear.

I don't know if this woman actually believes she was doing anything wrong. Part of me understands that she was trying to protect her daughter from a perceived threat. But her behaviour was so extreme given that it resulted from one incident, and she only had her daughter's word for what happened. I am not a mother so maybe I don't understand the level of protectiveness that mothers can experience, but I have worked with children a lot and I can't imagine that I would ever treat a child in that way, regardless of what they had done.

I'm not sure exactly what I'm asking for, I guess I just want to know how other mothers would react to this situation.

Sorry this is so long, and thank you to anyone who has read it and replies.

OP, I just wanted to say you sound like a really lovely person - your response to ermno was sweet and understanding more so than mine would have been and you obviously care about other people's feelings a lot.

FWIW, I remember being told off by my mother as a child for something I genuinely hadn't done - I've mentioned it to her since and she's apologised. It was only a small thing, but being believed now was important to me. My mum would never have wanted me to keep such a thing to myself, and I'm sure yours wouldn't either. I'd suggest talking to her - you may well find that she's more receptive to your feelings than you expect, and I'd imagine that though the friendship between her and this other woman may not end (and probably won't) you won't care nearly so much about it when you know that your own mother is on your side.

:-( Sorry to hear what you have been through, OP. I second the suggestion of emailing this thread to your mum and to the other woman.

YANBU. It really, really hurts when your own mother won't stand up for you. Sometimes it hurts more, and for far longer, than the actual incident

Thank you ItWasABoojum for sharing your experience. I completely understand your need to be believed, and I'm glad you were able to sort it out with your mum.

It's not that I think my mum won't be receptive to my feelings, quite the opposite really, I think it could really upset her. She didn't have a happy childhood at all and she still has problems with her mum as a result of it. I don't want her to feel like she wasn't a good mother to me. Apart from this, she has always been so loving and supportive. It seems so unfair to her to feel this way.

I think I might just try and say that it really bothered me at the time and that I do not wish to see this woman again so please make sure I know when she'll be having social events so that I can be out of the house.

I would absolutely love to confront this woman, as some posters have suggested, but I know that it would divide a friendship group that has lasted about 20 years so I don't think that it would be fair to those who were never even involved. And I think it would also make this woman feel she was right if I were to do that. I'd rather just not have any further contact with her.

It sounds to me saddaughter that your mum has low self esteem and so "needs" friends and is prepared to put up with however they treat her (and her family) as long as they stay friends with her. Unfortunately this has resulted in her acting in this cowardly way.

The thing is though, that you have to do what would make you feel better about the whole thing and put yourself first. If it means the friendship group divides, well, that's not really your problem at all.

OP - what a horrible thing to happen to you.

How about passing remark next time this persons name comes up in conversation that this person gave you a very hard time when you were young. And that you never had any time for here since. And that you won't be bothered putting on a 'good face' for her any more. Then leave it at that, make no fuss or bother about it, but no longer interact with this person.

should read ' never had any time for her since'

I understand how you feel. Plus, people who think you have nothing else to worry about - ignore them. Sometimes a very minor issue can dog us for a lifetime until it is dealt with.
You've had some good responses. I think if it were me, I'd explain calmly to my mum what had happened and how it has made you feel. And that since you are both adults, she can choose her friends and likewise, you can choose who is worthy of your time too.
Another strategy I've used - when family members refer to someone I cannot stand the sight of - is completely ignore the reference to the person and focus on the other "part" of the conversation. It moght not work for everyone but I feel in control of not having to spend a single second talking about the tosser.

I don't feel like counselling would be a good option for me. I know I don't seem it from this thread but I'm a happy, positive (albeit a bit lonely) person. I perhaps do have some underlying confidence issues but I'm not sure that counselling would help. I had a couple of sessions to help me cope with bullying during secondary school but I didn't feel that it was very helpful. I feel very protective of my family, including my mum, and I'm not sure I'd feel happy discussing anything about her with someone in real life. Also, I'd hate to take up counselling sessions that could be used for someone who has much more serious problems to discuss.

I will avoid public confrontation, but thanks to everyone who has been encouraging about that. It doesn't seem fair to potentially damage friendships between people who never had anything to do with this situation over something happened many years ago. Also, as I mentioned before, I think this woman would feel that I really was a bad person if I were to do that, and I don't want for her to "win". I want to be mature and just never speak to her again. If she is ever rude or intimidating to me again though, I will give her a peace of my mind!

I am going to try and discuss this with my mum, without upsetting her too much. And then I am going to try and move on.

As someone said, I know the truth. I was not a bully, it was a tiny argument, and it doesn't really matter now.

For whoever said my mum has low self esteem, that's probably true. And that's part of the reason that I do not want to upset her with this. She really loves me, I know that, and I know she would never deliberately hurt me, I think she just didn't realise how much it all affected me.

Thank you for everyone who has posted suggestions and acknowledged that things like this do have an effect even in adult life. And sorry to all of you who have had similar experiences. I hope we can all find ways to put the past behind us and not let it affect our future :)

I guess you feel that you was not listened to as a child or respected by your Mother. This continuing relationship your Mother has with this woman serves to remind you of afore mentioned and validates your hurts, even further. Maybe some Psychodynamic therapy that deals with childhood issues could help.

Yanbu. This has obviously affected you deeply and had an impact on your life. For you to be able to remember something that happened when you were 6 years old so clearly it must have been pretty traumatic.

On the other hand I very much doubt that your mum has any idea of just how much it affected you. She wasn't there at the time of the incident and you say everyone just laughs it off but quite honestly I think she wouldn't do that if she knew the ramifications of that incident and the subsequent bullying at school. Your mum is not being unreasonable to continue a friendship with someone you don't like, purely on the basis of a six year old's squabble with a friend and a telling off from the mum which is the way she sees it.

Equally I suppose it is possible that the friend was just having a really bad day, maybe she was dealing with her own issues at the time and lashed out on an innocent child. I'm not condoning this by the way, merely trying to look at things from another perspective. It's possible that the incident affected you so much that it coloured you perspective on all her future behaviour. You say that her behaviour on that day and subsequent occasions led to future bullying from her daughter but I think you have to separate those two issues in your mind and look at what she actually did in isolation from this.

How about leaving this thread open on your computer when you know your mum is around and then leaving the room for a while in the hope that she will have a look? If you don't feel able to actually write her a letter then this may be a way around the issue.

I think it's important for you to have a discussion with your mum about this but be able to accept that your mum may have a totally different viewpoint. She obviously values her as a friend and has done so for over 15 years. Parents don't always like their children's friends and vice versa.

You are 21 years old with your whole life ahead of you. You don't have to like this woman but you can make a choice to ignore her from this point on and take back control from the bullies!

I wrote the above and then realised I had managed to miss reading page 2 so my apologies if some of it seems out of context!!

Babes, feeling like you don't "deserve" friends and resigning yourself to a life of loneliness at 21 is a serious issue! You admit your mum has low self esteem, but that doesn't have to be your story too. Go and talk to the counsellor at Uni, that's what they're there for. Even if it doesn't work, you gave it a go

I'd be tempted to just look at her like she'd asked me to shit in a mug every time she spoke to me, but then I'm not particularly mature.

I don't think this is trivial or something you should just forget about.

This woman bullied you your whole childhood. Because of her treatment of you, other people saw an opportunity to bully you too and your life was made niserable. The people who should have stepped in to protect you from this, failed utterly. You must have felt so alone And your mum is still friends with this woman, which is a constant reminder of how she treated you and constant proof that your mum never believed you.

It must hurt a lot.

I know it's hard, but you have to get to a point where you can see that this woman had a big problem. My baby can do no wrong. PFBitiz. The Mummyzilla. It was never about you. Not personally. You could have been anyone. It just happened to be you as the child that was there. Horrendous bad luck rather than treatment of you because it's you - iyswim.

The thing is, in this woman's mind, you WILL have been the bully she decided you were. The world must bend to accomodate the children of these people. At all times and in all ways.

STOP laughing it off. You laugh it off and you trivialise it, as everyone else is doing. You need to be firm and honest with your parents. "Look. My whole childhood I was made out to be a bully because that woman couldn't handle the world not revolving around her child. I wasn't a bully and it hurts me that you never ever stood up for me. Be friends with her if you want to, but don't expect me to be."

And then just never have anything to do with her again. You have that right. Your confidence may well be in your boots because of everything that happened, but you have the RIGHT to not have someone in your life who makes you miserable.

fwiw - I bet you're a nicer person than her children are. The children of a true Mummyzilla (or Daddyzilla!) often grow up to be arrogant, ignorant people who think the whole world owes them a living.

miserable.

it's early.

before my fifth cup of coffee, I can barely see

I was bullied by a girl in my class throughout secondary school. It's affected me severely through my adult life. I have trust issues, I never believe that people actually want to be my friend and I'm always waiting for them to stab me in the back. It's not a pleasant way of living at all and makes for a very lonely life.

I totally understand why this is still bothering you. I was bullied by an equal so I can tell myself that I'm better than her and she had no idea what she was talking about, but you were bullied by an adult who you were taught to respect and listen to. There's no way that isn't going to affect your future relationships, especially as the one person who should have stood up for you didn't.

Just try to know that you are the better person. From your posts you've come out of this as a very reasoned and caring person. Try to speak to your mum but if that doesn't work, remember that you are a good person, you didn't deserve it and you can be strong and move forward. Good luck.x

Just because she is your mums friend does not mean she has to be yours. I would try and avoid her and just blank her tbh, she does not sound very nice. i am sure that you have your own friends and life, so I would put this behind you and move forward, and just stay away from her and her family. I am surprised that your dad never intervened if he knew what was going on

It sounds like bullying and yes bullying is very serious and can affect a childs self esteem through to adulthood, so its very hard to just 'get over it' but mabey you could write a letter and give it to your mum, I would. I would also just avoid the woman and not have anything to do with her. My mum has friends I don't see them, I have my own life.

Everything that Hecate has said,say exactly word for word what she has put above.

You sound lovely op.

Yes hecarte is spot on

I don't think the people saying 'get over it' or 'is that all you've got to worry about?' have any concept of the life-changing damage bullying can do.

If we (as parents) keep playing it down, it will keep happening and being ignored or excused.

awww. I get why this eats you up. essentially when you were young and vulnerable someone close to your family made you feel shit, and nothing was done. and sounds like your Mum let it go

so 2012 resolution, get some closure. IF I were you this is what I would do

send Mum a letter, keep it concise but share how sad you feel that when you weere a child you were essentially bullied by a close family friend and she did fuck all.

say that you want to NEVER see this vole woman again, and ask that whilst you can keep a relationship with her, you dont with this woman

I think you can only put this behind you if you take some action to defend yourself, you cant when you are 6, you can now

be prepared for some ramification, but stand your ground and I totally think YANBU

sorry but so what if you hurt your Mum? her actions hurt you, she should know

xxxxxx

I think another thing that might be bothering you (skimmed thread, but it didn't seem to come up) is that you feel betrayed by your mother - she should take your side over someone else's, a parent should back you up, and she didn't. I have a similar thing with my Mom, where I was bullied at school by various people, and she always defended them. It's a bit galling, and seems wrong.

"Look. My whole childhood I was made out to be a bully because that woman couldn't handle the world not revolving around her child. I wasn't a bully and it hurts me that you never ever stood up for me. Be friends with her if you want to, but don't expect me to be."

I agree you should say this, but add on at the end "and don't expect me to ever want to hear about her"

BTW I had a hangover from teenage bullying at your age too. Now aged 38 I am a confident motherfucker, but it did take some work! dont knock counselling, see it as a MASSIVE investment

you need to shake of the bad feelings you have about yourself, please XXXX