To wonder how so many of you can know some lifelong dole scrounger when the official figures are so low?

[ValarMorghulis]

I am forever seeing ignorant rants posts on here from people who are appalled that Bob down the road has never worked a day in his life, that their relative is a career claimant or that Sue next door is knocking out child afyer child with different men and not one of them funding their children.

yet the statistics state, and there is no reason to believe them to be false, that the numbers of long term claimants ( 5 years or more) is actually 0.3%

This raises two questions for me.
Firstly, why are we all so convinced that half the world is a lazy feckless scrounger satisfied to sit back and have us taxpayers pay their way. It clearly isn't the case at all.
And secondly, if the numbers are so small how come they all manage to live within close proximity to a Mumsnetter?

A woman I went to school with who has never worked, her children are teenagers now (lone parent) but she still says they need her at home, and has no wish to come off benefits

You do know that for a good while now if your youngest child is 7 you have no choice but to be actively seeking work and face sanctions[losing money] if you dont and if you dont participate in workfare?

The days of single parents of teens on benefit are long gone. which is why I doubt these anecdotal stories.

Thank God some people don't want to work, there isn't enough work for people who want it. As a country it would cost us a fortune for the anti depressants to treat all of those who are depressed because they cannot cope with being unemployed. It is well proven the numbers that apply for each job and the number of people who constantly retrain, we have the best educated unemployed in the world.

You're not getting the point of this thread are you peoplesprincess?

Weeeeell, I have read a lot of posts on MN re: Benefits Op and have refrained from commenting until now...

Lifelong friend of >30 years 'left' school at 14, in council housing at 16, pregnant with DC1 at 17, second DC two years later. Left partner (No DV, just 'bored') when DC2 was under a year old, into another council house. Fairly frugal life for next few years but late nights and alcohol certainly featured highly. Moved (council) house more than 8 times over the next 10 years by choice, and none were 'sub-standard' by any stretch of the imagination.

DC1 at 7 years old was 'looking after' DC2 (5 years old) on the street while Mum was three stories up...car swerved to avoid DC2. Mum 'claimed' DC2 was hit by car and pursued female driver through Legal Aid Insurance company for years hoping for a pay-out. ( The driver of the car ended up off work and on sick-pay due to the stress of the case). Mum also pursued DLA claim vociferously and was awarded it, despite there being no injury to child. DC2 was picked up and taken to school by taxi, and returned home, for the next 11 YEARS at huge cost to the L.A.

DC2 was STILL receiving (High Rate) DLA for never existant non-existent injuries despite fathering a child at 16, and taking part in a serious assault on another young person.

The friend, over the years, took advantage of community scheme for free driving lessons and test, and applied (granted) for Blue Badge due to DC2's 'disability - no road tax to pay. Also got involved in a class and started running their own at a large profit, kept two sets of books, all the time continuing to claim Income support and HB and opining that they 'couldn't take a job that paid less than 25K a year as it would be worth their while' (I had left school at 18, gone to college, lived at home with my (working) single parent mother. I worked from age 14, Saturday/after school/college jobs, and worked f/t from then on - in my mid-twenties I wasn't earning 25K!

Friend 'took' a job, was 'forced' to by DWP, aged 37, for three weeks before deciding a college course would be preferable to getting out of bed every morning. (Now in her 40's she has a job, though I'll never forget her moaning to me when she received her first payslip and complained about the 'amount of tax' she had to pay!!!!

So, 20 years on benefits in total, and still receiving 'top-ups'. DC1 (unemployed) in council house of own at 17, DC2 (unemployed) still living at home in his early 20's and apart from the child he fathered, who lives with (unemployed) mother in another council house.

It was/is a benefit trap I saw that as a teenager, the system sucks, people deserve better, the country deserves better. It may not be a 'good' life on benefits, but for some it's not a bad life.

That's personal experience, I could curl your hair with my professional experience

DC1 at 7 years old was 'looking after' DC2 (5 years old) on the street while Mum was three stories up...car swerved to avoid DC2. Mum 'claimed' DC2 was hit by car and pursued female driver through Legal Aid Insurance company for years hoping for a pay-out. ( The driver of the car ended up off work and on sick-pay due to the stress of the case). Mum also pursued DLA claim vociferously and was awarded it, despite there being no injury to child. DC2 was picked up and taken to school by taxi, and returned home, for the next 11 YEARS at huge cost to the L.A

DC2 was STILL receiving (High Rate) DLA for never existant non-existent injuries despite fathering a child at 16, and taking part in a serious assault on another young person

The friend, over the years, took advantage of community scheme for free driving lessons and test, and applied (granted) for Blue Badge due to DC2's 'disability - no road tax to pay

See its made up/misinterpreted crap like that that makes people think DLA claimaints are all swinging the lead.

No way could you be awarded high rate DLA for an injury that never happened [so no medical evidence] it just doesnt work like that

As for DC1 (unemployed) in council house of own at 17

A house for one single teenager? really ?

AmberLeaf all above is gospel, 'fraid so...was some years ago of course. Friend is rather forceful, and convicing, even convinced herself I feel. I always had a suspicion of 'Munchausens BP' as DCs were constantly 'ill'.

I have no beef with DLA claimants whatsoever but described a personal experience...no misinterpretation at all.

DC2 was scanned at hospital a day after after 'accident', perhaps to bolster claim? No 'conclusive' proof of course, but that was because 'head injuries are not always obvious' said Mum.

And 'house' is a common term in Scotland for any dwelling place, so I give you that...teens were housed in flats, forgive my parochialism please

I used to think like some of the posters here. That there were a whole lot of people on benefits simply because they were too lazy to work. Then my life went tits up and I found myself living in one of the most deprived areas in the uk. I now know that more poor people work than don't. And that the few long term unemployed tend to have problems that go way beyond being lazy. Particularly those 2nd and 3rd generation long term unemployed that some seem to enjoy castigating and blaming.

Believe me, you would not swap places with them, even if it came with £1,000,000 on top of the benefits.

First of all, are you a doctor ? Were you privy to all the medical records ? The scan ? Did you look over the DLA forms to see what was put ?

I suspect that you don't have all the facts on that. Believe it or not, she may not have given you all the details. Our son is disabled and I don't discuss details of many things with friends/family. As Amberleaf mentioned, that is simply not how DLA works, so there's every possibility you got wires crossed somewhere there.

And let's hold fire on the "Munchausens by proxy" comments please. Lots of people have children that are frequently ill, but that does not mean that MBP is going on. There are some pretty shitty attitudes on MN already about disabled children, and the last thing parents of disabled children need is THIS type of accusation to start floating about.

previouslyonlost - how the feck would you know that the person your "friend" claimed against was off sick and subsequently claiming sickness benefits?

Council housing isn't awarded to anyone under 18.

you do not get a free tax disc with a blue badge.

so i am sorry but your "evidence" is nothing more than inaccurate anecdote. Which goes to proving my point, that half of these stories are either made up entirely t prove a point or simply old wives tales past on and misheard and then in a Chinese whisper like effect, they get posted here.

it perpetuates the myth of these nasty scroungers at every corner.

Triggles I did not post to get involved in any disability/benefits 'scroungers' debate at all...hence my reticence at posting previously about this topic.

I was privy to all documentation relating to DC2 - I spent most nights a week in my late teens early 20's supporting friend who was a single parent, and who do you think moved her belongings from 'house' to 'house' in all those moves before she got those free driving lessons?!

I work/ed with parents with children who have a disability, and also with children with disabilities. Not the same as 'personal' experience as a parent of a child with a disability no, but enough professional knowledge to look back over 30 years and recognise a common thread in a friend's life regarding her attitude to illness. She was a child of a DV marriage, and learnt early on that being 'ill' was a comforting/protective factor. Years later her DC1 had 'precocious puberty' and 'emotional problems' etc etc and underwent counselling at an early age, all at her mother's behest, another more serious issue took place when DC1 was 12 that I won't go into on here but on reflection the way friend dealt with it was all about her IYSWIM?. Also recall friend going to G.P with an infected hang-nail once, and she demanded antibiotics - gawd, the things that come back to you once you start recalling the 'good old days'!

I see poverty on a daily basis through work, some people live in abject misery and have no way out - in my post I spoke of a personal experience in response to OP, why the PreviouslyonLost bashing?

It's not bashing. It's a simple matter of pointing out that your "anecdote" is full of numerous inaccuracies about how specific systems work, as well as your own personal judgements which may or may not be an altogether accurate picture. Lastly, I suspect, from the tone you used, that you (while you claim to have been a supportive "friend") disapprove greatly of this person and it seems to colour your viewpoint of events somewhat.

Anecdotal evidence is not evidence. It's your opinion of a situation, not necessarily all the accurate facts IMO.

Previously your post is evidence of my previous post. First you mention the young age of your "friend" when she became pregnant. The failure of her marriage. Her tendency to drink and move house often. Sounds like someone with problems? No?

However, now she is in education. Good luck to her in the future.

Then there are her DCs. If what you have said is true, they are damaged. Yes they are unemployed, but it sounds like they had nightmare childhoods that will deeply effect them into their adult lives.

Not only is that hard enough to deal with, but maybe now and definitely in the future they will have to deal with the fact that some view them as simply "lazy" if they fail to find employment. Even in times where the educated and mentally able who grew up working/with a work ethic can't get jobs.

what a jolly good friend you are.

to offer all this help whilst secretly thinking she was such a shitty parent and abusing the system for her own gains.

and then to come and spill her life story to an internet forum.

I do so hope they do refresher training in your job, maybe you could ask for some regarding confidentiality. whilst it isn't compulsory within a friendship it is usually implied

I think it is very narrow minded to believe that there is no benefits culture and that people don't just live a shit and boring life on the back of taxpayers because they can't be arsed to do anything else. People whose only expertise is in the benefits system.

The problem is that half the time they aren't doing anything illegal. It's just that our bollocks system decrees that they are entitled to far too much.

I have a cousin who is an expert on the benefits system and nothing else. She lives in a lovely council house with her rent fully paid for her albeit in a very run down area. Her boyfriend doesn't officially live there but he stays over a hell of a lot. She was desperate to get prengnant again when her oldest child turned six, which she did and now has a second baby. She is 25 and has never worked a day in ther life. She has been to Ibiza quite a few times though, and is constantly posting pictures of her nights out on fb. It's disgusting that she can afford to live the way she does, but shes not doing anything illegal so there would be no point in reporting her.

It's ok KitchenRoll, you can still look down on her. Don't worry.

At 25 years of age, I'd hardly call her a "lifelong dole scrounger" though....

Triggles I do take on board your comments, but I am recalling events that happened (in some instances 10/20) years ago, I have indeed distanced myself from this friend in last few years, mainly because we do not live near each other anymore, and also because it was (again reflecting) quite draining to experience such highs and lows. I was indeed a very supportive friend for 20 of those years, financially, emotionally, and provided childcare so friend had breaks etc throughout the years...

The facts are that friend lived on benefits for >20 years while more than capable of working, I believe the 'system' trapped her, she was/is incredibly clever and could have excelled in so many careers. She chose to have children, I believe, to bolster a fragile ego - she herself stated that oft repeated phrase 'I want someone who will love me no matter what', it's very common for young women from difficult backgrounds to see parenthood as a a role that they can do when other routes are not open to them.

DC2, IMO, did not have any injury...Mum was a forceful and believable personality and this allowed her to manipulate a skewed system.

In answer to Q. regarding how I knew about driver of car - I was privy to Lawyers letters detailing the progression of the case, I felt sorry for the driver of the car as I felt my friend enjoyed her (driver's) suffering - again an observation, that this was to assuage guilt of friend as DC2 was unsupervised when 'accident' happened?

Oh, and Blue Badge was for her Mum, my mistake to confuse Tax disc exemption for DLA and free parking when friend rarely took her lovely Mum, who lived 10 miles away, shopping - so no tax AND free parking .

And let's look at it another way...

• she's allowed to have a boyfriend, and I'm pretty sure that people on benefits are allowed to have sex (someone else might be able to produce a link that shows they're not allowed maybe ) so I don't what your issue is with that
• plenty of people take precautions, use birth control, and still end up pregnant
• She has a six year old and now another baby.. she's HARDLY churning out a baby every year now, is she...
• perhaps her boyfriend paid for her holidays, perhaps he pays when they go out at night... and again, can you provide a link that says that people on benefits aren't allowed any type of social life at all?
• lovely council house - so she obviously keeps it clean and well maintained, even though it's in a "very run down area" - what is your issue with that? you'd rather she be homeless?

You don't say she's neglecting her children, or running afoul of the law, or rioting, or taking drugs or anything like that... so why the need to put her up as a scrounger poster child?

"DC2, IMO, did not have any injury"

That "IMO" speaks volumes......

I know 6, and it's not the case of a friend of a friend, I know them well and know that they definitely don't work and have no intention of working any time soon.

But all the people I know who are long term benefit do not have wide screen tv's (well one does but it is on credit from a weekly payment shop), don't go on holiday, don't have a car and have very little money.

Why is thatihatecbeebies?

Just read the title properly these people are all in their 20s so not life long but have been for at least 5 years and are not actively seeking to change their situation

Why do they have no intention of working?

Well, why do you think that they will not work anytime soon?