To wonder how so many of you can know some lifelong dole scrounger when the official figures are so low?

[ValarMorghulis]

I am forever seeing ignorant rants posts on here from people who are appalled that Bob down the road has never worked a day in his life, that their relative is a career claimant or that Sue next door is knocking out child afyer child with different men and not one of them funding their children.

yet the statistics state, and there is no reason to believe them to be false, that the numbers of long term claimants ( 5 years or more) is actually 0.3%

This raises two questions for me.
Firstly, why are we all so convinced that half the world is a lazy feckless scrounger satisfied to sit back and have us taxpayers pay their way. It clearly isn't the case at all.
And secondly, if the numbers are so small how come they all manage to live within close proximity to a Mumsnetter?

Maypole, please re-write that last post, it's very difficult to work out what you are trying to say.

The last bit I got, it's just the first paragraph.

One Mum ...not THE MUM

children who have been marginalised, excluded, dumped in SEN Portacabins because, and only because, of their backgrounds/family circumstances...

That's dreadful! Does it happen a lot? Things have changed for the worse since I were a lass in the Olden Days! There were kids in my class with no shoes; didn't stop them scoring well in school tests. How outrageous to label a child 'hard to teach' because they're poor. Who makes that decision?

not sure how much this thread has progressed but.

I know several people who have been long term unemployed and several long term disability, they claim what they are entitled to and are welcome to it.

I know several that have worked the benifit system because they where better off if their DW worked and they stayed at home and several that took lower paid jobs because they would be better off, I have no problem with that either.

I know several that are cheating housing benefit, because their partners are living there but not on the forms, a couple I know work cash in hand and claim benefits, and I know three women that have children so they can claim for them, off their dads andany other benefit going.

I then moved and even after several years know of no-one cheating benefits.

It has alot to do with the area you live in, the age that you are, and also your social background and current area.

You can suspect that certain children are in receipt of free school meals, but you do not know.

yes there is a correlation between area's with deprivation and poor academic results.

it has a great many reasons for it, not only that many parents may claim benefits. It is a ludicrous and desperately offensive thing to say.

My parents are disabled. As such i grew up on benefits on a housing estate. Though i went through high school, college and then on to university where i got a degree. I could have continued my education but instead had a child.

Now i do not know your background maypole and i know this will seem rude but, based on your postings on this thread it would seem you have a lower level of literacy leading me to believe you struggled academically.

are your academic outcomes based on your parents finances or do you think that there could be all manner of alternative explanations? I would suggest you would prefer it to be the latter.

Maypole I see many terribly poor parents writing here on this forum. On benefits and sometimes with very many children. But most of them can express themselves succinctly and are extraordinarily articulate and educated.

They are usually also very broad-minded and are able to consider their previously-held opinions via careful evaluation of the evidence presented by other posters and peer-reviewed research.

More importantly, I have seen many MN posters who are economically secure and had harboured beliefs such as, "all council housing is free", react and even though the issue is nothing to them, post on the threads in a positive way.

I am really proud of MN sometimes. And I do think that the mark of an educated person is someone who changes their opinions according to the evidence rather than believing what they have been told to believe.

Maypole, despite all these threads you have not moved on or grown as a person, and I feel a bit sorry for you.

Winter it's you I feel sorry for I have a lovely little life

I don't have any fancy qualifications or spell very well but it's you i feel sad for passive agssive is it now

Fake symophacy wrapped up in what is supposed to be the killer blow the

I don't live of benefits, child is doing well at school and oh gorg oh loves me very much

I say what I think like it or not their are names for people who can only bare those with the same point of view

Oh winter have Did I articulate that ok

garlicfrother Sadly, yes to your question...gorgeous, funny, talented, bright, sparky, incredible, individuals who were written off by the education system because of 'issues' at home.

I'm still in contact with so many of them, some have prospered despite the labelling (a small minority), some went to prison, some will be life-long returnees to HMP's, some are young parents, some are chronically ill...every one of them had a talent, just didn't have the 'sit down, shut-up, and listen' skills to endure in mainstream schooling. (Never mind that they were awake for the whole of the previous year evening to...look after younger siblings, protect themselves (and siblings) from unwanted adult sexual contact, to watch out for parent on a drink/drugs bender, or protect parent from domestic violence, to clean, cook, maintain some semblance of a 'normal' home...the list goes ON...)

Most still only @21 years old now...and written off.

That fact you came on a thread then personally attacked me when the COVERSATION was very measured

Shows its you who needs to grow as person

Your sorrow is quite misplaced.

Do you really want to derail this important thread with a critique of your grammar and spelling? I don't. It would be like shooting fish in a barrel. Very tedious and boring.

Again, you have missed the point. Educated people, people rather better off than you and me can see the injustice of what this government is trying to do. because they can think beyond their own situations and their own petty grievances.

Not I think yours and your post says more about you than me

Oh go on winter make fun of my spelling then you can be a bully as well as vile

I apologise Maypole. My previous post was probably a low blow. I wasn't intending to be insulting, more to show you that poor academia doesn't necessarily mean poor parenting.

I have the advantage of only recognising your posts from this thread.

I do agree that to debate, discuss and then learn from that discussion is a sign of higher intelligence. It is ok to have vehemently opposed opinions on a subject. But to listen to the arguments and to challenge your own opinions, that is the only way to truly be enlightened. You may well still think your original opinion was correct, but you will have a far better understanding of the issues.

But you don't need to be a professor to have an opinion. And even the opinion of someone very ill informed is one of merit.

All i would ask is that you take on board some of the information shared from the "other side" of the argument

winteriscoming - That is pretty patronising!

Ach, save it for the Tories Val, Maypole, and Winter...we were having a serious discussion here, remember?

I didn't make fun of your spelling or grammar, in fact I refrained from doing so.

You said I'd be a bully if I did. And you also said that I am vile in any case

Personal attack. Tut, tut. I'll not report it though because it's so hypercritical

ValarMorghulis actally I had a pretty piss poor parent and was the direct cause

ValarMorghulis so you are also posting as WINTER hmm

I do take on other peoples views on this subject but I just don't agree
The thread was going pretty well with out argument or unpleasantness just disagreement.

I won't be replying to any of your posts agin write what you will ridicule my spelling what ever get you through makes no bones to me

I KNOW I CAN'T SPELL. I HEARD it all before I could probaley even give you a few jokes you would not have thought of

BTW lesley33 did mean to respond to an earlier post of yours, ageing braincells now forgets which post!

In the meantime, you'll be aware/have watched The Scheme? Ok, sexed up for t.v viewing figures maybe, but did portray real lives. And recent Paisley death of Declan Hainey (words cannot express adequately...)

Society needs a good hard shake...

no im not posting as Winter.

agree this has gotten far too close to personal and it isn't warranted.

I had FOUR piss-poor parents, both adopted and biological and I still have more compassion for the vulnerable than you do.

And no, VM isn't me.

Sorry but how is it personal?

Apart from Maypole asserting that I am vile.

I don't think it has reached personal attack stage yet but I don't wish for it to get that far, ie academic abilities of fellow posters.

shall we get back to the topic?

Maypole, why is it that you spell the same word correctly and incorrectly?

Why can't you spell benefits? You spell it correctly then change it to benafits.

Loan and lone, on the same post.

Hmmm.....

...ponders, I grew up in a single parent household, alcoholic NR father, attended FIVE Primary schools...race ya to the bottom people!

As Rose said to lifeboat in Titanic 'Come back, come back'!