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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To wonder how so many of you can know some lifelong dole scrounger when the official figures are so low?

290 replies

ValarMorghulis · 14/01/2012 17:47

I am forever seeing ignorant rants posts on here from people who are appalled that Bob down the road has never worked a day in his life, that their relative is a career claimant or that Sue next door is knocking out child afyer child with different men and not one of them funding their children.

yet the statistics state, and there is no reason to believe them to be false, that the numbers of long term claimants ( 5 years or more) is actually 0.3%

This raises two questions for me.
Firstly, why are we all so convinced that half the world is a lazy feckless scrounger satisfied to sit back and have us taxpayers pay their way. It clearly isn't the case at all.
And secondly, if the numbers are so small how come they all manage to live within close proximity to a Mumsnetter?

OP posts:
Meglet · 14/01/2012 19:32

Hang on. Did someone mention free school dinners further up the thread? AFAIK you don't have to be un-employed to get them, just on a tiny income. Quite possible for many people. School dinners are expensive, tenner a week for us, so lower paid people will probably need help in paying for them.

I used to know a bloke who never worked, he was mid 20's and smoked pot, played playstation all day. Not sure if he ever changed his ways.

AmberLeaf · 14/01/2012 19:36

I'm talking about the extreme far left who pop up on these threads and seem determined to excuse other people behaviour, far far beyond the p;oint where any reasonable person would just think "Quit whinging and get a job"

They probably just have more of an idea of the wider issues involved in long term [or any really] unemployment and know that its not always as simple as 'quit whinging and get a job'

molepom · 14/01/2012 19:50

Disability benefit is not means tested you can still work legally and it wont be affected. The cash in had though is not legal and would have to be declared.

JSA rules have now changed, if you are fired or leave a job there is a 6 month wait before you can claim.

(justa couple of points that needed clearing up)

Hecubasdaughter · 14/01/2012 19:56

I've nothing against those who don't have a job when they are trying their best.. It's just those who should be able to work but have no intention of trying that annoy me. The latter do exist.

I also support those who can't work due to ill health or caring responsibility.

Pekka · 14/01/2012 19:56

If you leave your job, you will have to wait for 6 months to get JSA. You can do temporary work during that time, just make sure that they are short contracts. That way you don't have to live without income.

imogengladheart · 14/01/2012 20:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

tethersend · 14/01/2012 20:07

The government decides whose claim to benefits is 'valid', not the general public at large. If someone is receiving benefits, we should assume that their claim is valid, unless they are committing fraud.

This country loses £1bn a year to benefit fraud according to the DWP (David Cameron's 2010 claim that £5.2bn is lost includes tax credits and errors).

Unclaimed benefits amount to around £16bn per year.

Objectively, we seem to be a country who would rather not claim what we are entitled to than defraud the system. You certainly wouldn't think it from the threads on here.

Original poster
ValarMorghulis · 14/01/2012 20:13

great post Tethersend

sadly it will be mostly ignored as there are many many people who prefer to look down on someone, anyone, as it makes them feel better.

OP posts:
AmazeGosh · 14/01/2012 20:22

Ok. I personally know:

A long term DLA claimant who leads an extremely active life including participating in sports, is out drinking most nights and takes long haul holidays that involve 'trekking'. And no, it's not depression, it's an alleged physical disability.

A long term DLA claimant, whos wife does not work either, but claims as his carer. It's 'a bad back' with him, but it doesn't stop him walking several miles a day with three huge dogs.

A woman with baby twins who claims she is seperated from her working partner, but is not.

A privately educated graduate in his forties, who has been claiming dole for over two years because he wants to be an author, and won't accept any other job whilst he is trying to get his work published. I'm not sure he puts it quite like that at the jobcentre, though.

A privately educated graduate in his forties who has been claiming dole for over a year because he does not want to pay child support (openly admitted this).

A woman I went to school with who has never worked, her children are teenagers now (lone parent) but she still says they need her at home, and has no wish to come off benefits

There are probably more that I'm forgetting. But these are all people I actually KNOW, not friend of friend tales, and not built on speculation.

tethersend · 14/01/2012 20:24

Statistically, you will still know more people entitled to a benefit which they are not claiming.

AmazeGosh · 14/01/2012 20:24

DLA claimants not working, BTW. I know some do.

AmazeGosh · 14/01/2012 20:25

Aaw tethers, you were so nice on the dress thread that I hate to disagree with you.

thepeoplesprincess · 14/01/2012 20:27

sadly it will be mostly ignored as there are many many people who prefer to look down on someone, anyone, as it makes them feel better

Hmm Why shouldn't working people look down on career scroungers? They are better than them, at least in that respect.

If it walks like a scumbag, and quacks like a scumbag.....

tethersend · 14/01/2012 20:34

Amaze, don't worry- it's about the thread, not the poster Wink

thepeoplesprincess, you are strengthening Valar's arguments more than any of us who agree with her- keep posting!

ChickenLickn · 14/01/2012 20:38

Its the tories, whipping up hate like the nazis.

Give people a hard time and give them a scapegoat to blame instead of the real cause.

Benefits are meagre compared to a decent job, i'm sure anyone would prefer a decent job.

But jobseekers allowance is now so low that it is effectively an economic disability, preventing people living a normal life.

happybubblebrain · 14/01/2012 20:41

I often wonder why people are worried about others being on benefits when the majority of the country recieves some kind of benefit (child benefit, tax credits).

Most people work. Some people don't work because either they are unable to, or occasionally they don't want to because the only work available to them would be something nobody in their right might would want to do. Why is anybody still bothered about this. There are bigger things to be concerned about.

Original poster
ValarMorghulis · 14/01/2012 20:43

AmazeGosh - i refer you to my post of 18.21.

if you know all of these people are claming without real cause then you should report them to the relevant authorities rather than bad mouthing them on mumsnet

OP posts:
G1nger · 14/01/2012 20:48

One sister, one brother-in-law. Sister has literally never worked a day in her life and is 40. BIL hasn't worked in around 8 years and has no intention of it.

ChickenLickn · 14/01/2012 20:50

Some people feel inadequate and inferior, so they want to look down their nose at other people as it makes them feel better.
However, expressing this instantly shows them to be bitter, nasty and yes, inferior. for example, thepeoplesprincess.

:)

Portofino · 14/01/2012 20:50

I do think in this age of internet banking and online invoices, the technology is there to allow people to do SOME work and declare it without losing all benefits - I think this is the biggest thing that stops some people working.

In my understanding you have to earn a certain amount to be better off than benefits according to your circumstances. So people will not leave the safety net as it is just not worth their while. If you could earn what you could - seasonal, uncontracted hours etc - and not be penalised, would that not help - and maybe clamp down on cash in hand jobs..... Is this what the Universal Credit is all about? Sorry - as outside UK for 5 years so not that up to date with everything.....

littlemisssarcastic · 14/01/2012 20:51

But what would be the point of reporting them to the relevant authorities if they fulfill the criteria for the benefits they are claiming?? Confused

You can be workshy or a long term claimant or have a baby instead of working and still be eligible to claim benefits perfectly lawfully.

thepeoplesprincess · 14/01/2012 20:59

I will keep posting tethersend because I'm not entirely sure what the OPs point is......

tethersend · 14/01/2012 21:00

Really? You're illustrating it beautifully.

ChickenLickn · 14/01/2012 21:05

Portofino - yes, this was certainly an aim of the liberal democrats - to ensure that people could work and earn a little extra and not have it all taken away immediately from their benefits, leaving them no better off.

As I understand it, the changes aim to ensure people will keep 35% of extra earnings. Its not much, but an improvement at least. Effectively a 65% tax, on the poorest people as they struggle to escape poverty and benefits. This is higher than the tax rate on the extreme rich who earn over £150,000.

thepeoplesprincess · 14/01/2012 21:28

You're still not convincing me you actually have a case to put forward.