To wonder how so many of you can know some lifelong dole scrounger when the official figures are so low?

[ValarMorghulis]

I am forever seeing ignorant rants posts on here from people who are appalled that Bob down the road has never worked a day in his life, that their relative is a career claimant or that Sue next door is knocking out child afyer child with different men and not one of them funding their children.

yet the statistics state, and there is no reason to believe them to be false, that the numbers of long term claimants ( 5 years or more) is actually 0.3%

This raises two questions for me.
Firstly, why are we all so convinced that half the world is a lazy feckless scrounger satisfied to sit back and have us taxpayers pay their way. It clearly isn't the case at all.
And secondly, if the numbers are so small how come they all manage to live within close proximity to a Mumsnetter?

And every situation is different. You don't know but that child's parents may only have been on benefits for a short time (due to perhaps a redundancy or recent illness), or for years. You don't know and generally you WON'T know. So it's pointless to generalise, not in these times.

www.jrf.org.uk/publications/review-research-links-between-education-and-poverty

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/2094292.stm

Triggers you are correct but some people were commenting to be fair they have seen children whose parents had been claming free school meals for their children for their entire length their child was in that school which from my calculations would be about 5 years if that child stared nursey getting free school meals

Add message | Report | Message poster maypole1 Sun 15-Jan-12 19:51:50
www.jrf.org.uk/publications/review-research-links-between-education-and-poverty

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/2094292.stm

Triggers you are correct but some people were commenting to be fair they have seen children whose parents had been claming free school meals for their children for their entire length their child was in that school which from my calculations would be about 5 years if that child stared nursey getting free school meals

ok.

I can see how you can assume that and to be fair I have seen it myself and made the same assumptions. However, every single time I have been (thankfully) proved wrong. I no longer make these assumptions.

These assuptions go hand in hand with the hurtful "benefit scum" propaganda and should be regarded as such.

There is no link what so ever, in real life, that says that those on benefits raise children who do badly at school. Most of the children I know who's parents are on benefits do very well and this has nothing to do with money. It's down to the hard work that parents AND teachers put in. I would strongly say that the children who do badly at school are thoses who's parents can not be botherd, are too afraid to ask for help, have difficulties that are not being supported and have very little confidence in thier abilities.

"I would strongly say that the children who do badly at school are thoses who's parents can not be botherd, are too afraid to ask for help, have difficulties that are not being supported and have very little confidence in thier abilities."

Yes... and these things occur across ALL income levels.

Eligibility for Free School Meals is strongly associated with low achievement, but significantly more so for white British pupils than other ethnic groups. Other indicators related to low achievement, as measured in the immediate area round the student's home, are:
levels of unemployment;
single parent households; and
parents with low educational qualifications.
Poor reading and writing scores at primary school are significantly associated with later low achievement.
Not speaking English at home is typically a short-lived handicap: African and Asian students who experience it commonly recover by secondary school.
Disadvantaged students are more likely to attend poorly performing secondary schools, and can miss out on the best teaching as a result of the 5A*-C GCSE target.
Looked-after children and those with Special Educational Needs often do not get the support they require.
Good schools that are particularly effective in helping students to avoid low achievement are not uniformly distributed across Local Authorities.
Expenditure on students and a higher ratio of teachers to pupils do play a positive part, particularly for low-achieving students.

Sorry but their is a strong link between low atteiment and benafits their just is

www.jrf.org.uk/publications/tackling-low-educational-achievement

Any education site will tell you this
Just googling low attainment in children who recives free school meals thousands of articles come up

It may nt be true for some but true for many

No sorry, you are still lumping everyone into the same catagory which is the problem.

So then, by extension, all children with employed or wealthy parents do well in school? Hardly...

You see what happens when you lump everyone together in one group......

Income does have a lot to do with it thats why we have surestart and why they are bringing in the 10 free hours for disdvantaged 2 year olds which are classed as the ones that are entitled to free school meals.

Sorry I don't get what you mean by giving the facts backed up by links I am lumping every one together then spry guilty

It's like saying I am lumping every one together by saying the majority of prisoners have either mental health issues or a drug problem when we know this is the case granted their will be some inside who don't and have no vises whatsoever ever but the majority will

I get it your taking this personally which you shouldn't because you have told me your a good involved parent and I have no reason not to believe you but the fact remains that children who have one or both parents on benafits for long periods of time don't do as well as those who don't

Molly any one who works with children knows this

Is one of the first things your taught that life chance are interlinked by income, race and to some extent sex and girls tend to do better than boys

Amberleaf 'Head injury' like back pain/injury presumably hard to 'prove'?

I have not exagerated or 'sexed' up recollections for DM dramatic stylee posting purposes, I'll even go so far as to 'swear' (FWIW on an Internet forum!) that what I've posted is the not even the half of it truth of one individual's circumstances @10/20 years ago. DLA is a godsend for many people, doesn't mean that it's not/can't be abused by some individuals.

P.M me, I'd love a long chat about my personal/professional experiences of past/current situations that I am in full cognisence of

Yeah I work with children to maypole and its definitely true

I'm not taking it personally at all, so please dont worry and thank you for calling me a good and involved parent.

I just dont agree with you when you say that it is FACT that those parents who are on long term benefits, go on to raise children who do badly or not as well at school compared to those with parents who work.

Your links just show that for some children studied this maybe the case but it is not proven to be a certainty.

While most people dependent on benefits are not living the high life , there are some who are living a rather nice life whilst on benefits.

I have 2 friends who are doing very well whilst living on benefits atm. Both single parents. One has 3 DC and is happy to go onto JSA this year, since she will only be expected to look for school hours jobs, and receives generous maintenance from her DC's father.

The other friend has 5 children and although her youngest is only 19 mnths old so no requirement to go onto JSA in the near future, she also receives a very generous amount of maintenance.

It is simply not true that benefit claimants that are living the high life are doing so illegally, although admittedly, it is the rare few in this situation AFAIK.

"the fact remains that children who have one or both parents on benafits for long periods of time don't do as well as those who don't"

You forgot the word SOME. It is not ALL. That's where I have the problem with these types of comments.

I'm not taking this personally. I just don't like the assumption that children who have parents on benefits are going to do poorly. And I certainly don't like teachers assuming that's the reason when dealing with a child. In most instances, they don't know all the family details, how long they've been on benefits (or even if they are!) and why.

I understand there are studies, and that's fine. But I think it's highly simplistic to say that children whose parents are on benefits won't do as well. There are so many extenuating circumstances and various factors that play into this that I can't see how they could say this unequivocally. All children are different, family dynamics and parenting skills are different across the board, and I just think there are more things at play in it than just that.

fact remains that children who have one or both parents on benafits for long periods of time don't do as well as those who don't

maypole, you don't understand statistics.

Statistically there may be a correlation, but that doesn't mean they are inextricably linked.

Triggles retry easy to find out the school hold stats and it's pretty clear who is having free school meals and how long they have been getting them also how many children in the family the school have all this information to hand

As once a parents starts working the dinner tickets stop
To be fair I have siad some and did be careful not to say ALL

TotemPole well I guess then sure start should just pack up

garlicfrother By the way, when you report someone for benefits fraud all their payments stop while they're investigated. EXACTLY why some are reluctant to report. I don't believe anyone really minds a bit of 'cash in hand' as long as it's not 'extracting the urine'. There's a fine line between 'exisiting on benefits' and 'managing quite nicely, thank you very much'.

I am beginning to think that this thread is becoming one of the minority on MN that is actually approaching this (complex) subject with some (non-frothing) reasonability...well done OP

I received a letter from the school, as did every parent, encouraging people to claim for the free school meal if entitled and I quote (will send you the actual letter if you wish) parents can save over £350 a year and the school receives £600.

At the top of the letter it says that "all claims are confidential and it is just the registration of this entitlement that your school requires".

Maypole

If your quote "easy to find out the school hold stats and it's pretty clear who is having free school meals and how long they have been getting them also how many children in the family the school have all this information to hand" is in fact true, then they are in breach of DPA (the Data Protection Act)

"but the fact remains that children who have one or both parents on benafits for long periods of time don't do as well as those who don't"

Sorry... I missed the "some" in this statement.

Looking into a child's background if they are having difficulty is one thing. Assuming they are going to have difficulty because of their background is quite another.

Their are. Children who pay for their school dinners and those who get school dinners with out giving in any payment ever pretty easy to work out who is receiving free school melas and who is not also on trips children who are reviving free school meals get a packed lunch

If six children say get that lunch then you know you have at least six children in your class who are getting free school meals I don't think this one would need Colombo

Triggles we just agree to disagree

Triggles 'I'm not taking this personally. I just don't like the assumption that children who have parents on benefits are going to do poorly'...

I have FOUGHT with 'Education' for the past 10 years regarding children who have been marginalised, excluded, dumped in SEN Portacabins because, and only because, of their backgrounds/family circumstances...made me sick to see children with talents, real hot-shot at maths in one case, put out of school and treated like vermin because of professional's view of their family and family's history. The Mum approached me recently (6 years later) to show me that DS was now on a degree course and 'performing' at nationwide level...watched her mobile phone recording of her son wowing an audience and was tearful happy that she, and I, were right all along.