"Bad teachers clampdown"

[HowlingBitch]

What on earth is going on here? I have literally just seen this on the news (Do I live in some sort of bubble?)

Can someone explain how this works because it feels all wrong to me.

Doesn't it just mean a HT can sack a teacher within a term rather than having to wait til end of school year? Hardly a big deal...my employer can do it in less than a term.

I don't see a problem. If a teacher isn't doing their job and educating our children, then he/she should not have that job. My understanding is that their children all have to make progress over the term, so it does not prejudice a teacher with less able children.

Would you be happy for your children to make no progress over a term?

This is no different to what happens in many many private sector companies.

I don't see a problem. If a teacher isn't doing their job and educating our children, then he/she should not have that job. My understanding is that their children all have to make progress over the term, so it does not prejudice a teacher with less able children.

Would you be happy for your children to make no progress over a term?

This is no different to what happens in many many private sector companies.

I think it's a good thing. It's currently FAR too easy for a bad teacher to stay employed as the school's hands are tied. My friend works with one such teacher as a TA and if she behaved the way she does in any other field she would be sacked but apparently they just move her between departments.

I think it's a good thing.

There's always a chance the new powers could be abused but that needs to be balanced against crap teachers being unable to control and educate our children.

In that context I think this is a good thing.

Right I have obviously got the wrong end of the stick. I just heard the last part of a very short news story that came across quite patronizing to teachers.

I'm guessing most teachers who enjoy their job won't have a problem with this, Crap teachers are probably a PITA for them too.

My understanding is that once a teacher has had their capability questioned and are effectively on the disciplinary route, it is almost impossible to get off unless they have sufficient time to demonstrate an improvement in their results; a term is not really sufficient time to prove that.

Michael Gove seems to have focused all of his energies on making sure that teaching as a profession is undervalued and underrewarded. Teachers (who are paid much less than, say, train drivers) haven't had a pay rise for years and their pensions will be seriously devalued if Gove gets his way (and that's after previous negotiations had already substantially increased their contributions, and their pension pot is not in deficit, unlike some other civil service penions, especially the non-contributory ones). Also, teachers in schools that become academies/free-schools will find that they no longer have the same rights or pay scales as current state schools (they may have initially have payscales that 'mirror' the state schools but for how long?).

All in all, I wouldn't want to be a teacher, it's a bloody hard job, and the likes of Gove are just making it less and less desireable as a career choice.

They said on the radio (BBC2) earlier that in the last 10 years only 17 teachers have lost their jobs because of bad teaching. They said that this is because it's too easy for them to get away with it, not because that's all there are.

One suggestion, which the teaching unions are furious over is allowing parents who want to, to sit in class so they have a better idea of how their child's teacher is doing.

wineandroses this has nothing to do with pensions.

I would LOVE to sit in on a particular class one of my ds's teachers takes!

Well that's just stupid. How would that even work? Chances are that a very good teacher would get nervous and mess up and the horrible ones would put on an act.

I agree that putting parents into the teacher's classroom is ridiculous!

It should be easier for schools to sack 'bad' teachers though.

Cameras would be a much better idea howling

What a crap suggestion - teachers are already observed by their managers, junior teachers and by ofsted inspectors. Imagine having parents (untrained, with no idea about the subject or the curriculum) watching too. what a farce. And I don't believe that statistic of only 17 teachers.

Doesnotgiveafig. So what? I was making a point that teachers are under attack on all sides at the moment.

I think it's just a bit of populist propaganda trying to distract attention from the fact that this government are currently trying to get legislation through to reduce benefits for the most vulnerable and needy in society.

(But then I'm cynical)

wine it's be nice if this thread didn't turn into a debate concerning teachers and pensions and focused on the issue it's actually about, which is making the process of weeding out bad teachers easier, a process that's currently quite difficult to do. It's not an attack the way the pension stuff was.

Fig I disagree, it is an attack. If any profession has negotiated certain rights over many years, it is draconian to change those rights unilaterally. If I want to use other examples to demonstrate my view that teachers are under attack, led by Michael Gover (who probably had a bad experience at school given his dislike of teachers), then I will. Stop trying to tell me what I should or shouldn't comment on.

Kladdkaa I do not have any statistics in front of me and will therefore accept that 'only 17 teachers have lost their jobs because of bad teaching'. What I imagine this statistic hides is the number of teachers who have left the profession of their own accord in recognition of their inadequacy, or those who have been edged out after quiet consultation.

Trust me, teaching is a foul profession to get in to if you can't get it right. Your life can be made a complete misery day after day after day.

Having said that, I have no doubt there are teachers out there who need to be removed.

I really am not sure about allowing parents into lessons in any other capacity other than passive observer. I doubt if there are many professionionals who would welcome complete strangers into their work place on the understanding that they would be able to comment on how well they performed their job.

Teaching is unique in its position within society, there is a proportion of the adult population who think that because they have been to a school, they know how to teach.

Legally, managers have to show that they have taken reasonable actions to address poor performance before any employee is put on a formal disciplinary process. So to have a term on a formal disciplinary process after the pre informal stuff is still a long time and seems more than reasonable to me.

Yes teachers will have left who are not up to the job before they are sacked. But 17 does still seem incredibly low tbh.

wine whatever.

I don't have a problem with this.

There are plenty of people out there wanting to be teachers, there is no reason for children to put up with rubbish ones just for the sake of it. I don't think it takes long to identify a good teacher from a bad teacher. There must be lost of people out there that are excellent teachers in theory, but who don't actually like children very much or work well with them. They shouldn't have job security just because they are teachers, and as they do such an important job, they shouldn't get loads of second chances. Our children's education is too important to waste time giving rubbish teachers the benefit of the doubt.

fig