to think schools should be more considerate of the needs of working parents?

[Purpleroses]

DD's class (Y4) were showcasing their work on Ancient Egypt today. They all made invite letters to take home to parents inviting them to the "Museum" which was to be held in their classroom from 2pm-3.15pm (school finishing time). She goes to a club after school on a Wednesday so I would normally pick her up at 4.15, but she really wanted me to see their work so I left work early specially. Got there at 3pm and found it was all finished and packed up. DD is really :( I'm really :( for her, and pretty cross at the school for having no thought about when might be a good time for people to come and see it, or to put the correct times in the invites.

And it was really hard leaving work early today too - I've messed colleagues around, all for nothing.

Her old school was much better at that sort of thing - class assemblies, etc - anything they invited parents to was always first thing in the morning which fits in an awful lot better with the working day for most people. Different demographic at her old school - smaller families, more working parents. Seems that the new school pretty much expects every child to have a SAHM if you are to have any involvement in their life. Even the parent teacher consultations are within working hours.

I know, you'd think the teachers being obviously in a full time job themselves would understand!

I'd agree that if the exhibition was supposed to run until 3.15, then it should have done so, to accommodate ALL the parents who arrived later in the timeslot and expected to be able to see their child's work. Nothing to do with whether they're working or SAH parents, just common courtesy. If you're packing up and gone by 3 then put 2.50 on the invite.

If it was billed as running until 3.15, then of course it should still have been there at 3.15 and I'd be jolly cross (whether I'd have to make arrangements to be there, or if I just wanted to fit my viewing in with pick up time).

You can probably never please all parents with timings of events. The pragmatic solution to this is to arrange events to happen at a variety of times of day across the whole school year. Some will then be straightforward, complicated but doable, or impossible; but at least you'd get some of them.

If they said it would be available until 3.15, then they should have left it all out. But tbh, having gone to loads of these types of things, I would expect it all to be pretty much over after an hour. I wouldn't expect the teachers to hang around and keep everything waiting for just one parent, but at the same time, I would never expect to go to this sort of thing an hour after the start time and for it to still be in full swing.

So I'm not sure if I think YABU really!

At least you know for next time. Its probably best to check with the school each time they do something like this, because it probably varies as to what time it's ok to turn up at.

Yes, the school should have been much clearer whether it was a "drop in any time between these times" event, or a "2pm start, will be over some time before end of school day" as parents would attempt different arrangements for two quite different expectations. Lack of consideration and clarity in drafting may well have been a factor, as your interpretation was totally reasonable.

"AIBU to think schools should be more considerate of the needs of working parents? " Yes

"AIBU to think the display should have finished at th published finish time" No

If school finishing time is at 3:15 then surely lots of parents would like to co-ordinate those two events, come in to the Museum at 3, then pick up their kids at 3:15. YANBU to expect the event to be available for the duration that it said on the invite.

I think first thing in the morning is good for these types of things because then people are just late for work instead of having to disrupt work already in progress. However, I'm guessing the Museum needed to be set up beforehand so somebody would have had to have been in early to get it ready for that morning. I don't know what the solution is. Whenever there is something at the school in the evening that requires the teachers to be there I feel bed because I know they've had to give up their free time for it.

YANBU. If it was supposed to be running until 3.15 and you arrived at 3, that's unacceptable.

Schools still seem to run on the model that there is a parent (or grandparent) at home available to come to various functions. Today, that's just not the case for the majority of families, not a minority, and schools need to take this into account.

I do not expect teachers to run things in the evening, because they work enough hours as it is. Part of being a parent is sacrificing your time and giving up leave you might otherwise spend on holidays, etc. However, given the emphasis on paperwork and planning in our current educational system, I thought most teachers have a very good idea at the start of each year exactly what activities they will be doing that require parental input/attendance/money. Especially as many of these are repeated year after year.

I wish parents could be given a list at the beginning of each academic year that listed the dates/times/costs of various activities. I know some things can crop up at short notice, but being given most these things in advance would save parents a lot of stress by giving them plenty of opportunity to organise leave and to save up, as well as reducing the number of disappointed children.

Pombear Yes, you're right, finishing early could be annoying for anyone whether or not they're SAHM - but if I'd not been rushing out of work early I'd happily have got there a bit earlier. And even if they'd advertised it correctly, 2-3pm is such a bloody inconvenient time in most people's working day!

I do notice a big difference from her last school, where most parents worked (very central school, convenient for dropping off on way to work) and everything was done to fit in around normal working hours - her new school is in a very rich part of town with big houses, big incomes and big families. I think there are more families with one parent at home a lot of the time, and the school seems much less accommodating to those who aren't as a result.

sunshine - I too wish we could be given a bit more notice. A list at the start of the year is probably a bit unrealistic, but I'm frequently told about things only a couple of days before they happen which is very short notice to try to rearrange work comittments. Again suggests they think parents have nothing else to do in their lives.

Euphemia, same here. I have never taken my own child to school or picked him up.

The difficulty is that schools are now expected to have closer links with parents and to offer parenst lots of opportunities to come into school and see what is happening. The problem is that it happens in the day time because that's when kids are at school. Schools can't win on this one. I don't attend these events because I am a working mum. I don't worry about this ;it's just the way it is. If you feel very strongly about it I would speak to the head about limiting the events and having more notice. She may well however get lots of flack for doing this from the SAHP who love dropping in for any number of events and assemblies.

Won't the school let your DD bring her work home for you to see? Or can you ask for an appointment before school to see it?

I know it's not quite the same as getting to the event, but maybe it would be enough for your DD.

I've no desire at all to make there be less opportunities for parents to get involved - I'd just like a bit more opportunity to do so too. 9am is an OK time for quite a lot of working parents. OK, not everyone, but many people can start a little late on the odd day. Much more likely than being able to make things in the middle of a 9-5 stretch. And giving more notice can't be that difficult.

Never bothered me a great deal with DS, who wasn't bothered if I came or not, but DD does really love me to come into school and gets very sad if other mothers are there and I'm not :(

Teachers can never get to their own DCs school whatever time of day they choose.

Parents who have very little to do? YABU.

Teachers on this thread- why aren't you asking your HT if you can go to school events for your DCs? Every child matters- that's our children too. I am a HT and nearly always let people go to their DC events- we take it in turns to cover for each other. Can't always do it, but usually we sort something between us.

for the title of the thread: YABU

for the thing finishing early YANBU and it is fucking annoying and :( for your DD

But you are not more important than SAHPs, so you really need to stop thinking that you are. I'm a bit cross how you made this about WOHP v SAHP. Yes you were inconvenienced, but a SAHM who came at the time advertised on the invite and then couldn't see their child's work would be just as upset as you.

YANBU for being upset about the exhibition shutting before the billed time, that's very poor.

You're so right about the notice. We had two working days notice of when our children were expected for their settling in morning for reception, it didn't bode well. The parents evening slots aren't sorted out much in advance and the sheets go up inside the classroom just before school. I was told I could request a slot using the home diary, which was ignored, so ended up with the pick of the remaining three slots, for two children.

I don't think in our case it's particularly premeditated - I'm in the minority working full time but mostly for not having older children at the school and therefore knowing how it all works. And it's the latter factor I find more difficult.

I'm not looking forward to the time when my two feel bad because I'm not there for things like that exhibition but I'm not sure what the solution is, because I can see they have to be within the school day. I guess more notice so I can book the day off and sticking to what they say.

Nagoo - I really don't see that asking for more convenient times is saying she's more important? Obviously, if something is in middle of day, most sahp parents will be able to go, working parents won't. She's asking for it to be equal, rather than preferential treatment.

YANBU in your expectation that an event will run until the time stated but I've learned the hard way that when these things say "from 2 - 3.15" the unwritten code is " Arrive at 2.15 latest." The trouble is as a WOHP it's probably harder to get to grips with these stupid unwritten rules.

It's difficult for working parents but I'm not sure what the answer is.

I think as others have said, have things at start/ end of day. Better for sahms as well as pita to go to and from school 3 times in one day, no?

Beginning of day is rubbish for me. I work mornings. I work in a school and can't get time off for things like that particularly. So I am glad that not everything is done in a morning at DD's school. Least this way I only miss half the stuff, not all of it.

Hard for a school to suit everyone. Agree they should have made it more clear when the Museum would be open. Agree with whoever suggested the idea of different events at different times of day is the answer

The lack of warning for things used to get me mad. DS1 is at secondary now so not such a problem. And they actually hold parents' evening in the evening! I used to have two days notice of needing a costume for a play / materials for this and that / money for a trip or an event with parental input expected. Unless there's a weekend between the letter and the event there is no chance of us being able to do it and if I have to go to something I need more notice still to try and arrange cover for my class while I go, not always possible or permitted, it depends on when it is. A quiet time or a supervised study type period in the last week of term in December is much better to get off than an assessment session in June