to think schools should be more considerate of the needs of working parents?

[Purpleroses]

DD's class (Y4) were showcasing their work on Ancient Egypt today. They all made invite letters to take home to parents inviting them to the "Museum" which was to be held in their classroom from 2pm-3.15pm (school finishing time). She goes to a club after school on a Wednesday so I would normally pick her up at 4.15, but she really wanted me to see their work so I left work early specially. Got there at 3pm and found it was all finished and packed up. DD is really :( I'm really :( for her, and pretty cross at the school for having no thought about when might be a good time for people to come and see it, or to put the correct times in the invites.

And it was really hard leaving work early today too - I've messed colleagues around, all for nothing.

Her old school was much better at that sort of thing - class assemblies, etc - anything they invited parents to was always first thing in the morning which fits in an awful lot better with the working day for most people. Different demographic at her old school - smaller families, more working parents. Seems that the new school pretty much expects every child to have a SAHM if you are to have any involvement in their life. Even the parent teacher consultations are within working hours.

YANBU - if it said 3.15, then it should have carried on until 3.15 and I would email the head and tell them that you left work early, inconveniencing colleagues and it turned out to be all for nothing and left your dd very upset.

I am a sahm, who used to be a teacher and I think there is possibly too much time when parents are expected to be in school, watching various assemblies etc. Even if you are a sahp, you usually have smaller dc at home and it's a nightmare keeping the babies occupied and quiet, whilst trying to watch what your older dc are doing. I think school should be school and there is no real need for parents to be there except for school plays and parent's evening. It feels like a box ticking exercise because schools are under pressure to have close links to the parents.

It's not fair on the teachers either, who would be better off just getting on with the teaching, rather than entertaining parents and hard for them to miss activities at their own children's schools.

Schools are under pressure to have closer links with the parents because it's good for the children! They don't do it just to upset working Mums ffs.

It's lovely for dc to have their parents come in to see their work, and it helps parents get to know the school, the teachers, the other parents, their children's friends, and most importantly, see what their children have been doing all day so they can talk about it at home. IMO, it's important for parents to talk to their children about what they are doing at school, school is a massive part of a child's life and they should have the opportunity to share that with their parents.

It's unrealistic to have these things in the morning because the children have to be involved in setting out the displays, and it can't be done the day before because the cleaners go in in the evenings.

It's well worth trying to get to know other parents so you can ask other Mums to have a look at your child's stuff and you can return the favour when they can't go. I work part time and my heartache is very understanding about letting us have time off for our dc's things, so I have often taken pictures of stuff to text to parents who are at work and taken my dc's friends round.

Oh yes, school plays and parents evenings. As I recall, when I was a child these were evening events....when did they become afternoon events . I can usually make it but DH has trouble getting there.

I know all those things about my children's school without needing to be in there every five minutes. You can have close links by keeping parents regularly updated with emails, by holding school fetes and optional activities, which take place after school, so working parents don't feel bad if they or their dc cannot always make it. People with full time jobs can't always be standing around getting to know other parents - they have to be at work.

I only think it is good for the children if all the children get to have their parents there. For those kids whose mums and dads have to work full time, it probably isn't that nice at all, when they see other parents in the classroom, but their own parents cannot be there too.

You don't need to be in the building the whole time to talk to your children about what they are doing. I would imagine that virtually every parent talks to their dc about their day and helps with homework, so they see what their children are doing.

With the best will in the world, having a friends mum look over your work, is not the same as having your own mum there. I think often these things just guilt trip working parents, when they are not always necessary.

stoprainingplease - they were always during the school day when I was at school in the 70s/80s.

This is one of the sacrifices made as part of your decision to return to work. I can't make it to any evening events as I have no one to look after siblings [shrug]

We have afternoon and evening performances of the school play, so everyone gets a chance to see it. Also, the teachers in our local school offer later appointments for parents evening. They are lovely though and if you can't make a specific day, will let you make a separate appointment on another day.

They're not always necessary, but they are nice for children and the parents. Even if a parent can only make one or two a year, that child still gets the pleasure of it.

I can see that it's not in e for children whose parents aren't there, but the teachers and TAs do their best to distract them with something else. Or other teachers from the rest of the school come in and make a fuss of them. It can be well managed. It's not the same having another parent or another teacher, but I don't think that's a reason not to do it, because the children do learn from helping to plan these things too.

I was surprised by your first paragraph Karma, I nearly always agree with you! ( I namechange a lot though) Emails just pile more work onto teachers, and they do already do a lot. These events are already optional, and school fetes are generally organised by the PTA. Teachers do not have to go to them, although they generally do. But that is during their time off too, as is having things in the evening. Teachers don't tend to get paid any extra for going in for parents evenings you know! And the children can't be as involved in planning things for the evening.

Schools have to plan things around the people that are actually in school, the children and the teachers. They shouldn't be made to make full time working parents their priority, especially when so many parents have at least one of them at home or working part time.

In e! That was nice, but auto correct disagreed!

In our school, we get weekly emails from the head, keeping us up to date with what's going on. I don't think it takes him too much time, but it does keep everyone informed. That said, I wouldn't expect individual teachers to do it and our head is a non teaching head.

I don't think that everything should be geared around working parents, any more than they should be geared around sahp, but there should be some recognition that many families just can't afford to take the time off work. I feel terribly guilty if I miss something that's going on at school - it's one of the reasons why I haven't returned to work.

Although teachers don't get extra for parents evening, it is part of their job, so, while it is a pita for them (and I didn't like doing them myself), it is something they just have to do.

Nice to hear that you usually agree with me. That cheered me up, so thanks

YANBU - but then I also work full-time, a 90-minute drive away from the DCs and their schools, so it is an annoyance I feel regularly.

I don't work on a Wednesday, so imagine my delight at finding that DD's nativity play would be performed on two days - Tuesday and Wednesday. Then imagine my irritation at finding that, without so much as a by-your-leave, I had been allocated tickets for the Tuesday peformance. (I was able to find a swap but would it really have been so difficult to find out people's preferences, or lack of them, before high-handedly deciding who should come when?

my dd's school sent me a letter one thursday telling me that on the friday of the same week my dd would be presented with I certificate in assembly and that they were sure that I would like to show my child how much I supported them and was proud of their achievement by attending the assembly

because obviously at 19 hours notice I would be able to attend

didn't make me feel like a big shit or anything!

No, teachers don't get paid extra for parents evenings no, but they do form part of their 'directed hours' so are paid time.

YANBU - I often think that about DC's school. Particularly when they text me at 11am to tell me there is a parents' assembly at 2.30pm. Or complain that there aren't enough school governers but insist on holding governers meetings at 3.30pm (totally crazy - even if you are a SAHM you would need childcare to make a meeting at this time of day).

OP you are definitely NBU. This drives me totally crazy! Teachers supposedly work full time and that means they should be available and on the premises from 9 until 5, maybe even 6 on occasion, if required. The same as the rest of the working population. At least then I have a chance to leave work at 4pm and get to the school without having to take the whole afternoon off.

Point very well made gaelicsheep especially as they all work at least 10 or 12 hour days in term time. It used to be really interesting seeing the teachers on the high street here at about 4.15 if the dc and I popped to the shops before coming home when they were at primary school.

Yeah. What Pootles said. No-one is asking for preferential treatment, just a bit if balance; fair warning; and for advertised times to be adhered too.

OP YANBU

I think you'll find teachers are available at the times you'd like; just make an appointment. As for hanging around on the off-chance you'll show up - I think not. Would you expect a doctor or solicitor to do this? Thought not.

If you're talking about assemblies and formal occasions, then that becomes part of directed time, and the school has to budget for this.

Also, marriedinwhite, it's none of your business what a teacher, or anyone else, does after work hours.

don't want this to turn into the usual don't teachers have it easy crap but please consider that many teachers spend their evenings marking books and personally I spend at least five hours planning and marking on a Sunday which isn't part of my paid time.

I think giving parents lots of notice is a key thing. Lots of dates eg parent assemblies can be notified at the start of the term , or even the year. This makes it easier for most parents to attend if they want to. Schools really vary at how well they do this but it makes a big difference to parents.
Even full time parents can often take a couple of afternoons off a year to watch their dc if they can plan ahead.

Also listening to parents is good. Our school changed the time of parent assemblies from 10 am to 9am to help parents attend.

"Teachers supposedly work full time and that means they should be available and on the premises from 9 until 5, maybe even 6 on occasion, if required. The same as the rest of the working population. At least then I have a chance to leave work at 4pm and get to the school without having to take the whole afternoon off."

You do realise that teachers start work before 9 don't you?
The rest of the working population does not have to be in work between 9 and 5 at all.
And if teachers have to be on premises so that you can leave work at 4pm to get to the school, how are they meant to go to their own children's school?

At the school I work at we have a standing invitation for parents to attend Friday assembly, but we also ring the parents of the children who have won the weekly 'wonders' award (and afternoon tea with the head) on a Thursday to ask them specifically if they'd like to attend. It's short notice, but unavoidable because the award is based on the week's work, so we don't know who it will be till the day before - and the children themselves don't know till the assembly. It's very popular and we often get both parents, but it's very much a drop in if you can, don't worry if you can't type of thing. The feedback's been very good so far (it's only been going since the new head arrived last term)

It's good to be able to give advance warning of events, but sometimes opportunities come up at very short notice, or maybe if the children have been working on a project and it's going well, the teachers might decide to invite parents in on the spur of the moment.

Also if the display/event is the result of a special activity day, we can't display the work until its been made or give a performance until it's been rehearsed, and if there are outside people involved, the timing may depend on them to a large extent, especially if they are giving their time voluntarily.

It's not always possible to leave stuff for parents to see next day either, the classrooms have to be cleaned; also we have after school clubs in the hall most days and often in classrooms too and it's later used for community events like Brownies or for lettings, like Zumba. We have to cancel those for things like Parents' evenings or plays, but if we do it too often we'll lose the letting, and we need the money!

"Teachers supposedly work full time and that means they should be available and on the premises from 9 until 5, maybe even 6 on occasion, if required. The same as the rest of the working population. At least then I have a chance to leave work at 4pm and get to the school without having to take the whole afternoon off."

As a teacher, I am usually at work before 8am. On parents' day I am lucky if I leave before 8.30pm.

I start work at 7.30, presumably that means I can leave at 3.30 every night?

Woopeee!