To want the NHS dismantled and replaced with something that works

[Ryoko]

I hate the whole lot, GPs are awful there job is to stand between you and treatment, when/if you manage to get an appointment, you never see the same one twice and their answers range from "don't do that then", "take pain killers", give it a couple of months" to "if it really starts hurting go to A&E".

An obstacle for everything and when you do end up in hospital it's yet more fobbing off.

Only time I've ever been in a hospital was when I had my son, stuck on the conveyor belt system I knew something was wrong for ages but all my concerns and requests for additional scans where met by "no" followed by a quoting of figures about how likely it is something can be wrong because childbirth is the most natural thing in the world and I'm just being silly. (being silly until I got rushed to hospital for an emergency C-Section).

It's no wonder we have a high rate of pretty much everything from cancer deaths to stillbirths, it's not because we don't have the equipment and expertise it's purely because they don't give a fuck, the GPs don't want to refer anyone for anything and the hospitals don't want to do anything other then stick to a set checklist of do's and don'ts to save money.

scrap the whole thing and start again from scratch, get the French in here to create the new system, they do better then us as do many other countries. I get sick of MPs trying to cloud our minds and make the stupid think that our only choice is our broken NHS system or American style private healthcare, we are not that think and ignorant of the rest of the world, we need a system that works.

Whilst I agree the NHS needs attention my experiences of it as both a user and a HCP bear no resemblance to yours.

Yabu

I personally think YABVU. I think the NHS in theory is something to be cherished. There are though, many many problems with the way its run at present, and these are largely down to management and the fact that more private firms are involved. Each trust is different. My experience has been good.

I would argue that the American system is better, I don't believe it is.

I accept you're ranting, and I don't think the NHS is perfect. But it can be sorted and its failing are certainly not down to people not giving a fuck but rather not having the funds, being overworked and being constantly demoralised by twatty bad management.

It's only January 9th but the original post could well be the daftest of the year.

yes, of course dear. Now go and lie down

YABU the NHS is by no means perfect and needs modernisation (not privatisation). However people also need to use the NHS sensibly what is a GP supposed to say when you have an illness that does not need treatment or will get better on its own i.e. viruses, sprains, minor injuries? Do you want them to make up a treatment or diagnosis instead of telling you to take painkillers etc?

Are you Daniel Hannan?

So you have had one hopsital stay and your basing it all on that!

I have had 9 experiences over 2 hospitals in the past 2 years aswell as many outpatients experiences and I think the system works pretty well. Ds is still alive due to it which is a big bonus!

Yes things aren't perfect but they aren't as bad as you seem to suggest.

Perhaps you can detail how within the current budget you would do better?

I agree the NHS needs to be looked at, but it certainly doesn't need to be dismantled and replaced with something else. IMO, it just needs the resources to do more of the good stuff that they already do.

I think waiting times for referrals, speciallist appointments, treatments and operations are ridiculously long, and that needs to be changed.

But on the whole, the NHS is good.

Yabu

YANBU. I have posted similar (slightly less ranty...) opinions on here before.

I think the French system is far superior too.

I think a lot of people in the UK are just used to the system we have and until they live somewhere else and experience some of the alternatives are stuck with thinking it is the only or best way of doing things. It isn't.

YABU.

Next...

Mmmmm, build a better NHS from scratch, taking your cue from Continental Europe where people routinely pay to see a doctor/GP or pay in excessively high taxes for what we have here.

Let's raise taxes for everyone when the economy is already in the shitter, i'm sure Dave Cameron/Nick Clegg thinks that'a vote winner and what would everyone do in the meantime while the NHS is being re-built from scratch, unless it's in a parallel world where it can be done instantenously? Tell the population not to get ill, have babies. I understand you having a rant but I dont think you've properly thought through your arguement

YABVU NHS works really well. It does have problems which need sorting but no need to start a whole new system. It will never be perfect but it can be improved.

The NHS has some very serious problems. Not sure of the solution though!

Get some people in from other better managed health services, cut management pay, ensure there are proper roads we can go down to make a complaint that gets upheld and gets results.

Sort the fucking GPs out, I'm fed up with them, fed up with the switch board fed up with being told by one receptionist that you can only make appointments for that day and then by others that they are booked up for the next 2 weeks, fed up with keep being fobbed off with answers of maybe it's ligament damage, muscle damage, your stomach is in the wrong place (WTF?) 2 years I've been going backwards and forwards to them and getting no where.

Going to have to change GP again, this one has gone down hill, left the last one because they refused to give my sister a urine test, kept accusing her of being bulimic when she was clearly diabetic, she didn't get diagnosed until she got cataracts and bleeding in the back of the eyes.

They need fixing, in 1987 they killed my grandmother, she went into hospital with a stroke, got out of bed in the night, fell down a flight of stairs and was just bundled back into bed again without a word, she died of internal bleeding a few days later, nothing has changed they are still awful from top to bottom.

And theres no point taking them to court over anything, they just clam up to protect the staff involved, all you get is a payout from cash pot that should be used to treat patients no justice, no accountability.

Do you know how much as a % of income the French pay for their system? If we paid the same we'd have a much better NHS.

GPs triage. It's their job! A job they'd do a lot better if they weren't under so much pressure not to refer to keep costs down.

Did you know that their prescribing budgets were monitored and they were called to justify themselves if it went over the average spending per patient? And now it's gone one step further and many practices have their prescriptions directly monitored by their HCT. And they are pressured not to refer so many people to specialists, with many NHS trusts using trained nurses to review referrals and bounce back patients that have been referred to a specialist by their GP.

Do you think GPs choose to keep appointments to 5 minutes max for patients regardless of their health issues, meaning that they have to rush through some of the less severe cases to give them 10 minutes to tell someone they have cancer? Do you think GPs want to act like cashiers and see people on a first come first served basis rather than maintaining continuity of care?

I think most people don't realise just how dysfunctional the NHS is because they haven't experienced any other system.

After my divorce, I seriously considered moving back to the UK to be near my family, but honestly, I couldn't do that to my kids :( The 2 reasons I decided to stay in France are the school system and the healthcare system.

This article sums it up pretty well!

I agree 100%, the NHS effectively killed my Mother as the GP didn't spot her cancer for 2 years, in fact not at all. The elderly get treated badly far too often, it is a shambles half the time. It is the one thing that is making me seriously consider moving to France.

All the more reason to shut it down and start from scratch.

Thats what I mean about accountability 90% of the time I have no idea who the hell the doctor is, it's an endless stream of new faces at that place, likewise who don't know who the nurses are in the hospitals, so how can we really complain about the service?, the individual will never do better, never be held to account so they shape up and change their attitude to the patient if everything is so impersonal, so machine like, as I said a conveyor belt system.

Costs more in the long run, things that could be nipped in the bud left to fester so more treatment is needed, drugs handed out for months when shift treatment would do far more, people taking the system to court for payouts time and time again that comes from the budget for treatment not the stupid money the management make.

YABU and totally ridiculous. Many, many, many people owe their lives to the NHS, me included.

And MildlyNarkyPuffin is right, pound for pound the NHS offers the best care in the world. If we kept the system, with some tweaks and funded it to French/German/US levels, the NHS would be unbeatable.

Shortly before I moved to France, I had meningitis! My GP was fully booked and even the emergency appointments were taken for the next 48 hours. I was told a home visit wasn't possible because I'd recently moved 1/4 mile outside their catchment area. My local chemist sold me stronger painkillers and told me to rest

In the end, as I continued to deteriorate (I had a temperature of 41.5°C, couldn't move my neck or open my eyes!), my neighbour - a gynecologist - came round and told (ex)dh to take me to casualty!

A couple of years ago, my mum (late 50s) started haemorraging every time she got her period. She ended up in casualty at least 1 or 2 days a month in the 15 months they made her wait for a hysterectomy . In France she would have been in an out the first time it happened!

They've finally seen sense and are moving to France in a few months, when dad retires, so I won't have to worry about them quite so much!

YABVVU. If you want a privatised health system, pay for it-it's there.

I'm sorry you have had a few very bad experiences - but I have 2 lifelong disabling conditions and have received nothing but excellent care from a variety of sources, hospitals and GPs - including or my high risk complex pregnancy.

I lost my MIL in July and am about to lose my FIL - both again have by and large received excellent care without a £10000 bill at the end of it. There have been odd nurses and HCP's who have been less than great - I complained through appropriate channels and it was dealt with quickly and with an apology.

I am passionate about having an NHS that works and saves lives. We have got that - but we're losing it through cuts, privatisation and low morale - the latter is not helped by attitudes such as 'the whole NHS and all GP's in it are crap'.

So you have an issue with your GP practise. Hardly a sign the NHS needs to be dismantled is it!

And why would it take a neighbour to tell someone to go to A and E with those symptoms anyway? Surely sometimes people need to take responsibility and use some common sense?

Yanbu.

As others have said, those who've never experienced another system are terrified of change.

Just last week I posted the actual costs from my European health insurance + claims so people could actually see the facts. Not one response, just 'froth'.