To want the NHS dismantled and replaced with something that works

[Ryoko]

I hate the whole lot, GPs are awful there job is to stand between you and treatment, when/if you manage to get an appointment, you never see the same one twice and their answers range from "don't do that then", "take pain killers", give it a couple of months" to "if it really starts hurting go to A&E".

An obstacle for everything and when you do end up in hospital it's yet more fobbing off.

Only time I've ever been in a hospital was when I had my son, stuck on the conveyor belt system I knew something was wrong for ages but all my concerns and requests for additional scans where met by "no" followed by a quoting of figures about how likely it is something can be wrong because childbirth is the most natural thing in the world and I'm just being silly. (being silly until I got rushed to hospital for an emergency C-Section).

It's no wonder we have a high rate of pretty much everything from cancer deaths to stillbirths, it's not because we don't have the equipment and expertise it's purely because they don't give a fuck, the GPs don't want to refer anyone for anything and the hospitals don't want to do anything other then stick to a set checklist of do's and don'ts to save money.

scrap the whole thing and start again from scratch, get the French in here to create the new system, they do better then us as do many other countries. I get sick of MPs trying to cloud our minds and make the stupid think that our only choice is our broken NHS system or American style private healthcare, we are not that think and ignorant of the rest of the world, we need a system that works.

Well why not bypass the whole NHS and go private - you can pay to see a GP and pay to go private for all of your health treatment or you could always move to France?

And believe me the amount of shit they are in at the moment I wouldn;t be surprised if their contributions jumped massively!

amicissima
Determinants of health go way beyond healthcare. Having people who are too sick to work has many causes and is unlikely to be because of inferior care on the NHS.

Nhs bashing again.....awesome
Some sweeping generalisations there OP
YABU
HTH

You know YABVVVU. I would not like to have like it is in other countries where you have to have insurance or pay up front for medical care at all! Poor people would be left to die and in agony!

I would hate to see it gone but my god it needs a kick up the arse! Get rid of the apathetic managers and restore confidence in those that know how to do their job.

It it wasn't for the NHS I would be dead but actually I shouldn't have nearly died because of the NHS.

When the poo hits the fan they do the job but much less poo would hit said fan if GP's weren't constantly told to keep times low, keep people away from tests which in my case left me nearly dead after six months. Folled by a blue light dash to A&E where I was left in a cubicle and only my DH giving a nurse what for saved my life.

The following 3 months in hospital really showed me the NHS in all its ghastly glory, dirt, nurses who don't care and beds blocked by the elderly who have nowhere to go. All crap really.

the problems with the NHS are not isolated and are influenced by all sort of other aspects of society. like the abuse of alcohol and the amount of A&E/paramedic time that takes up. the funds that are ploughed in to trying to get people to stop smoking (don't start in the first place). the lack of appropriate facilities for elderly patients who end up bed blocking.

that's without the 1000's of wasted outpatient appointments where people just don't bother turning up. the money spent by foundation trusts having to communicate with stakeholders who, lets face it, have no real say or influence in how a trust is run. unrealistic perofrmance targets set by MP's which directly impact on how drs and nurses work, and not always in the best interests of each patient.

imho there should also be a public debate about what we expect the NHS to do - do we as a society want to fund things like tattoo removal and purely other cosmetic procedures? some might suggest IVF shouldn't be publicly funded.

i work in and firmly believe in the NHS. i realise it's not perfect but yabu it certainly doesn't need abolishing and replacing. ryoko it sounds from some of your posts that you would prefer to go private. maybe you should

YABU
I have nothing but praise for the NHS. Might not be perfect, but nothing ever is.

I've lived in the US and that was a scary system. If you couldn't afford treatment or insurance you got no treatment, that was it.

Oh a nursing bashing and NHS bashing thread - both in the same week.

Good times.

I think a lot of the "problem" with the NHS is society's expectations of it as well.

We now have:

An increasingly sick and elderly population

An increasingly socially reliant population who seem to think their health is always 'someone else's problem - you sort it out'.

Inappropriate use of provision meaning that resources are being used wrongly - how many times do we see on here "just go to A&E then they'll have to sort you out". Too many people making GP appointments for things that can easily be self-managed or are self-limiting. There are many resources (especially online) to allow people to decide what the problem might be and how to access the appropriate help but they just default to making an appointment.

Too many people willing to take no or minimal responsibility for their own health.

Unrealistic expectations of what the services can offer - GPs have to pay for every referral to secondary care they make, every blood test they order, every scan they arrange, every patient of theirs that uses the Out of Hours Service. They're not going to send someone for a scan without good clinical reason, or be happy with patients who use the OOH service because they couldn't be arsed to arrange a GP appointment.

I agree. Getting access to anything is an increasing nightmare. There must be a better system.

YABU.

It's flawed, but it's free at the point of use. It has saved my life, that of my brother and my niece.

YANBU the NHS is absolutely dire and the healthcare system needs massive changes. Not that this will ever happen as most people seem to think we have a choice of either maintaining the status quo or adopt the American system, I don't know whether I find this mentality laughable or tragic.

YADNBU

It's not the NHS that saves lives - it's good medicine.

And good medicine can be delivered in an alternative framework to the NHS.

Unfortunately the NHS is a scared cow that we are stuck with.

OP as a cancer patient who is only here because of the brilliance of the treatment I have received from the NHS I really wish I could tell you what I thought of your inane drivel without risk of being banned from this forum.

Thats a very good point Sidge.

In the GP with DS last week and heard the receptionist trying to explain to someone who came in at 4pm NEEDING to see a Dr that should couldn't. She managed to assertian she had a cold and with it being the day before NYE she wanted to get checked over, the receptionist asked if she had any medical conditions and was told no. The woman was getting more and more irrate at the fact she couldn't see a dr!

Some people seem to see the need to seek medical help for everything now which certainly doesn't help the system.

OP, please come back on here and tell us if anyone ever finds that you have a significant medical problem causing your pain. Because I bet you don't. Loads of people get odd pains from time to time without any serious underlying cause. Most of them are mature enough to accept that. You, however, seem to be condemning an entire health service for failing to investigate you for a non-existent illness.

And please explain how extra scans would have prevented you needing a C section.

You sound like a self-obsessed PITA and your GP has my deepest sympathy.

"All I get told is to get stuffed if it doesn't hurt all the time, because it's not all the time they don't care."

1. I don't believe you've been told to get stuffed.
2. Constant pain is caused by different (and more serious) things than those that cause intermittent pain. It's not a matter of 'not caring' but of being less serious.

OP, from what you've posted here, I do find myself wondering how you come across face-to-face.