To want the NHS dismantled and replaced with something that works

[Ryoko]

I hate the whole lot, GPs are awful there job is to stand between you and treatment, when/if you manage to get an appointment, you never see the same one twice and their answers range from "don't do that then", "take pain killers", give it a couple of months" to "if it really starts hurting go to A&E".

An obstacle for everything and when you do end up in hospital it's yet more fobbing off.

Only time I've ever been in a hospital was when I had my son, stuck on the conveyor belt system I knew something was wrong for ages but all my concerns and requests for additional scans where met by "no" followed by a quoting of figures about how likely it is something can be wrong because childbirth is the most natural thing in the world and I'm just being silly. (being silly until I got rushed to hospital for an emergency C-Section).

It's no wonder we have a high rate of pretty much everything from cancer deaths to stillbirths, it's not because we don't have the equipment and expertise it's purely because they don't give a fuck, the GPs don't want to refer anyone for anything and the hospitals don't want to do anything other then stick to a set checklist of do's and don'ts to save money.

scrap the whole thing and start again from scratch, get the French in here to create the new system, they do better then us as do many other countries. I get sick of MPs trying to cloud our minds and make the stupid think that our only choice is our broken NHS system or American style private healthcare, we are not that think and ignorant of the rest of the world, we need a system that works.

Yeah and I've been worried about this for 2 years, first I get a horrible time giving birth, being endlessly ignored until I started bleeding, now I'm endlessly fighting to see a GP, just to fight to try and get a x ray or something, to find out what this pain/pressure is I've been suffering since I was pregnant.

I've been stressed out and frightened for 2 fucking years, my only crumb of comfort is the fact I keep telling myself it can't be cancer because it would have gotten worse by now not stayed relatively the same waxing and waning.

(Pressure under right rib cage below breast, can not bere down to poo or anything because of feeling that something moves forward causing me to feel sick, all so happens sometimes when I bend over, coupled with pain in the right shoulder at an exact point, pain in the chest/right breast at an exact point and pain under the arm side at an exact point, every so often like I'm being poked and dull ache in the right shoulder most of the time).

Sounds like gallstones. Have you asked GP for a scan? Has it outright been refused? Have you asked for a formal second opinion?

YABU, try a different GP or make an official complaint.

Alpine your individual costs are not representative. As a proporition of GDP, the French spend signficantly more on heallthcare than we do. Do you deny this?

YABU and completely daft. No health service is going to be perfect, and to counter your anecdotal evidence, I could just as easily say that GPs have noticed symptoms and rapidly referred me for treatment that saved my life, and have done similar for other members of my family. Sometimes they make mistakes, because they are people. If they weren't there, though, thousands of people would be dead and that would be much more to whinge about, surely? Unless you only care about yourself and not about poor people etc who can't get insurance under other systems (French-living immigrants/asylum seekers in particular there don't often get health care, which is outrageous, letting people die for their nationality). I also know lots of people in the US from a health related forum who have just as much problem getting prescriptions for basic needs from their GPs, so it's no better there (as if anyone could even think that).

An have you complained to PALS or the PCT if tests/treatment are repeatedly being refused? Have you been given a formal diagnosis?

wubbly I live in France and I am perfectly happy to pay this amount of tax if it means I know my kids can get a decent education, no matter where we live and decent healthcare with no rediculous waiting times!

YABU.

I have heard a few horror stories and no, things aren't perfect, but I have largely had a fantastic experience of the NHS, as have most people I know.

All I get told is to get stuffed if it doesn't hurt all the time, because it's not all the time they don't care.

I'd be happy to pay more for a system that works over paying less for that that doesn't, whats the point in that?.

Yabu. My three month prem son owes his life to the Nhs. And by and large it is a system which is remarkably compassionate and patient-centred. To all those hankering after the French system, remember the doctors word is law- and sometimes remarkably retrograde. My nephew had an endoscopy without anaesthetic, aged 2, because he 'wouldn't remember the pain afterwards'- big Paris hospital. And cock-ups happen in any country. My dm nearly died of peritonitis in a small French hospital because they refused to believe she had appendicitis.

Yabu

Mistakes and major cock ups occur because doctors and HCP's are human. They happen all over the world in every healthcare system.

Not because of A System.

The System can, tho, be hard to navigate complaints wise.

Ryoko if you feel your concerns and symptoms are not being taken seriously, go bak to GP and ask for an abdominal ultrasound. If it's refused ask for written confirmation of why. Then contact PALS or your PCT and make a formal complaint. Then ask for a second opinion.

If you go in with an attitude of 'you'll refuse me / you're all shit' then this will take valuable time away from your concern being heard.
Hope this helps (not a sarcastic HTH either)

Yabvu. Problems with one gp do not mean dismantle the system. It is the most efficient in the world.

wubbly I don't know what the French pay. I do know I pay 52% tax and am thankful for genuinely wonderful public services. I am very lucky in that I understand you get what you pay for and that money doesn't grow on trees.

I don't believe anyone has told you to get stuffed.

And FWIW your symptoms don't sound like anything an X-ray could diagnose. Have you had bloods, asked for a referral for an ultrasound scan? If a GP has dismissed you have you seen another?

I agree there are problems with the NHS - and I used to be one to complain about how long referrals from GP's take (I still do, really) and how my GP fobs me off with some excuse etc etc.
It wasn't until one of my DD's ended up in Paediatric intensive care as inpatient for weeks on end - was on ventilator for an age, and there were quite a few times that we thought we would be walking out of the hospital 'empty handed'. DD's consultant truthfully said to us 'Maybe unlike some other areas of the hospital, PICU will do anything they can to keep your child alive - we dont ever, ever give up on children if we believe they have even the slightest hope'. DD eventually came out of PICU (after seeing so many children come and go) and onto normal ward - the hospital has taken it all very seriously and despite DD being perfectly fine now, she still has regular, thorough check ups.

It was then that I realized how amazing some parts of the NHS are - yes you hear of the nurses that shout at old people, but they end up being stereotyped - DD had a 1-2-1 nurse who were all so, so lovely; even when DD was sedated and had no idea what was going on, they would talk to her as normal and make me feel so at ease.I could not fault PICU for the work they did, and for keeping our daughter alive.

I appreciate that a lot of people feel that the NHS are to blame for family tragedys; but at the same time, I just want to make people aware that some parts of the NHS are amazing - I know that it is no consolation for some, especially if you have lost a loved one, and I realize that.

Ryoko do not be ridiculous your GP has never told you to 'get stuffed'. Have you complained to your practice manager? Complain if you feel you are not getting the treatment you are entitled to.

I am really sorry you are having such a horrible time Ryoko, but I do find it hard to believe that a doctor or nurse has told you to 'get stuffed'.

I think the point that previous posters have made regarding how much other countries pay towards their health service is really important.

On a personal note I have just come out of hospital after a 3 night stay, and I couldn't have recieved better treatment, the staff and level of care was fab!

YABU .... The NHS may not be perfect but for me (& others with chronic conditions) it has been a lifeline. In many other countries I would have to choose between my treatment and other parts of my life...(education food etc as chronic conditions are rarely covered by insurance based schemes and treatment often limited in other countries with you having to pay to top up, here I am treated so that I can actually function and be part of society rather than a physical write off. I have had many serious interactions with the NHS for myself & my child and managed care for my chronic disease/ disability and although it's not always been perfect on balance it has been bloody good.

I love the fact that our system means you turn up at A and E and you get the treatment you need without questions about what level of insurance you have or if you can afford to pay. That is something to be grateful for.

AlpinePony Social Security contributions in France are around 18% for workers and 23% for managerial-level staff. In my last job I was on 23% (but includes a better pension scheme) and didn't pay income tax, as a single mum of 3 - enough deductions not to be taxable!

I also have private health insurance, which costs me ?58/month for the 4 of us (when I worked it was paid for by my employer, but I'm currently a full-time student). I pay ?1 for GP visits and Social Security/health insurance refund the rest. Dental work is free except prosthetics and it covers ?200/year towards glasses or contact lenses.

All hospital stays are fully covered, including a private room and a parent's stay if kids under 18 are hospitalised. The food is 1st class :)

Like any service or business you will never get a concencus on whether they are good or bad - it comes down to personal experiences.

The nhs is not perfect but then any healthcare provider is dealing a huge variant of people and problems. And the nhs can't pick and choose (technically) which services it provides and to who it provides it for. So in comparison to private healthcare it is always at a disadvantage.

I'm not saying private providers don't have a role to play or people shouldn't go private if they wish - clearly they should - but a move to total private provision nationally should be approached with caution. We need to protect the most vulnerable in society from falling into the health poverty trap (dentistry is a good case in point)

Bastard bloody French healthcare misdiagnosed my fractured patella leading to continued problems and further surgery once home.
I had a bad experience so the entire country's health system needs overhauling.
This is the logic of this thread n'est pas?

You get the good eggs and the bad eggs amongst the GPs and other HCPs. Some couldn't care less about you and your symptoms, others will bend over backwards to make sure you get treated (a GP lent my DH £15 so he could take a taxi to A&E).
I believe NHS could do with a better co-operation with private healthcare, so that people could go to private for eg routine smear tests.

My GP's surgery where we used to live was dreadful. You couldn't get an appointment at all. As each of my DC left home and registered with a different GP they came home with tales of how much better it could be.

Moved to live with my mum- her GP was lovely. Moved to a town down the road - another fantastic GP. Permanent move to another town - another great GP.

I had cancer in 2011. I have spent more time in hospitals in the last year than in my previous 48. Couldn't fault them. 3 different hospitals, lots of treatment. No waiting, and treated like a person by all except the last scan team. Pretty good record, given that you are always going to come across someone you don't get on with in every aspect of life. Private that would have cost a fortune. Reckon I got back considerably more than I've paid in.