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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to envy/hate people on benefits to be as well off if not better than us

999 replies

chocaddict · 08/01/2012 16:08

I know that this post may have some mixed reviews and may even get me slated but I can,t help it.
Someone I know although she is a genuine case her and her husband have as much as me and dh coming in and with a brand new car thrown in for good measure.
I can only dream of a new car and I work my tripe off 5 days a week as well as dh whilst some people can sit at home and get the same income coming in it seems really unfair.

OP posts:
MmeLindor. · 09/01/2012 11:40

Tilly
You know what the largest paid benefit in UK is?

Housing benefit. Cost £20bn a year.

Why does it cost the country so much? Cause most of it goes to people who are working, who cannot afford the high rent.

The reform is not about cutting benefits from those who don't need it. It is about cutting costs, regardless of who needs it.

MmeLindor. · 09/01/2012 11:40

xp with expat. Yes, pensions then housing. Am looking for link

lesley33 · 09/01/2012 11:42

Actually pension costs are being reduced by increasing the age when people get their state pension.

Peachy · 09/01/2012 11:46

Do people know that it has been suggested that council tax benefit provision be amde optional, decision of council? So someone on basic JSA will have to pay if council opts out.

But forget the travesties and let's focus on anyone who has a newer car than us (even if they only use it to access chemo clinic)

gah.

Sevenfold · 09/01/2012 11:47

TheRealTillyMinto Mon 09-Jan-12 11:27:58
So because some are lazy and screwed up, everyone should be made to suffer, geniune or not. How warped

where did i say that? it just makes the debate pointless if you read it as me saying everyone on benefits is at fault.

this is and never has been a genuine debate, it was started by someone full of hate and envy for a disabled person.
it is full of quite sick posts, and lovely suggestions that disabled people should have to go cap in hand and beg for money.
genuine debate........no

Peachy · 09/01/2012 11:47

And 31 people at least have died appealing ATOS assessment.

nice!

Peachy · 09/01/2012 11:51

'But how do you prove for example that someone isn't in pain or isn't as depressed as they say they are. Very very difficult to actually prove.'

Actually that sdhows ignorance of how DLA works.

DLa works by asking what you can and can't do. 'I feel suicidal' counts for nothing; it would need to be 'I have agoraphobia and cannot leave the house'- it is tax orientated. So relatively easy to prove as if you can do the task then you are wrong.

of course most people I know are BELOW the level they should be, or were offered a lower level then fought it. So many children needing night care never get offered HR now. But that seems to escape people's notice.

Peachy · 09/01/2012 11:53

'

  1. DP's brother is a single man who has lived on benefits for the majority of the last 10-15 years. he has told me he is lazy & does not want to work. he broke his leg a couple of yrs ago (his early thirties). he claims it still causes him pain & hobbles about for show but walks normally when he forgets. his dad has been to see the consultant with him who told him it has healed really well & there was nothing wrong with him. he claims for his 'disability'.

I am assuming he is still on IB handover list for ATOS as difficulty getting about is NOT a reason not to work; he will be required to find employment or take workfare. Heck, ds3 (autistic, obvious langauge difficulty, can tolerate other people for about 10 minutes before seeking solitude, scarily poor attention) doesn;t hit ATOS criteria so a bad leg won't!

herbietea · 09/01/2012 11:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

TheRealTillyMinto · 09/01/2012 11:57

Sevenfold the OP was very bad/badly expressed & i have seen some horrible posts on MN.

but we have a tory govt & they did not get in though a coup. when the BBC did a poll something like 60% of voters did want benefits reform.

i live in an area of london where noone on a middle income can afford to live. i dont see how you can blame someone who works & pay taxes on a medium wage asks why they are the only ones who cannot afford to live there.

IMO that is why we have a tory govt in power.

lesley33 · 09/01/2012 11:58

I do understand that DLA focusses on what you can and can't do. My point was that it would be difficult to prove fraud with lots of conditions. For example,if I said I have severe anxiety and can't leave the house without someone else with me. You can prove through surveillance if that is not the case and I do leave the house frequently by myself. But you can't prove if someone decides to pretend they always need someone with them if they do actually always take someone with them.

An assessor may not believe them and say they are no longer entitled to DLA. But it would be hard to prove legally they had lied and thus the actual fraud rate may be higher than 0.5%.

Whereas as I said previously with some other benefits fraud is easier to prove.

Peachy · 09/01/2012 11:59

Am relinking Mme's link becuase EVERYONE should read it

It's not really news, ATOS were hired to take on DLA assessments after changes before review was finished; but it makes it clear and when I shout people don't listen so perhaps another voice will help?

I don't beleive for a minute this bunch of weasels will change anything; once I decide who is worth supporting I will work my arse off (if I find work) and then give every spare penny to fighting this shower of unmentionables. becuase anyone who risks the livelihoods of the vulnerable members of society is automatically a wanker.

WhingingNinja · 09/01/2012 12:01

Tilly - What a wonder it is that your partner turned out so well given what degenerate scum his family are. If you believe they are lying then report them.

Don't sit back in your ivory tower tarring us all with the same brush.

Anecdotal evidence is not proof. I think that a great many on these sorts of threads need to remember that.

Peachy · 09/01/2012 12:03

Ahem Tilly, why we have a COLATION. Most of my family voted Lib Dem (not me else i'd have hacked my own arms off by now and they appear to remain) and they did NOT want this.

Lesley how many fraudsters do you think would actually go to those lengths as opposed to say with HB working cash in hand? realistically?

And people keep equating DLA with unemployment: STOP IT! That is NOT the case. My mate has CP in three limbs, is a user of a motorised wheelchair, doing well in his degree and employs IIRC 11 people in his company doing disability training and website design. the DLA pays for his chair and access to help, he earns the rest.

TheRealTillyMinto · 09/01/2012 12:03

Peachy DPs bro has enrolled on a MH qualification & started smoking lots of dope & we think he is 'doing his research for the next phase'.

it will of course be good for his own live if he fails the ATOS test but he is v committed to remaining 'unable to work'.

WhingingNinja · 09/01/2012 12:05

Could i ask all of those who believe that DLA is so very easy to receive. That it is oh so simple to defraud, to actually apply.

make up whatever illness or ailment you like. But apply.

if you are awarded you can refuse it. But apply. Please.

You are all so convinced that you just fill out a simple form and tell them you are paralysed and they hand over a flash new car. IF only you could remove your heads from your arseholes long enough to breath in a bit of the real world you might realise what utter cock ends you are being.

TheRealTillyMinto · 09/01/2012 12:06

WhingingNinja

Tilly - What a wonder it is that your partner turned out so well given what degenerate scum his family are. If you believe they are lying then report them.

DPs father has recently reported his brother & we are waiting to see what happens.

Don't sit back in your ivory tower tarring us all with the same brush.

i wasnt.

WhingingNinja · 09/01/2012 12:08

For example,if I said I have severe anxiety and can't leave the house without someone else with me. You can prove through surveillance if that is not the case and I do leave the house frequently by myself. But you can't prove if someone decides to pretend they always need someone with them if they do actually always take someone with them.

so if you are claiming you take someone with you, and you do.... how exactly is that lying and defrauding anyone?

lesley33 · 09/01/2012 12:09

whingingninja - Most of the detected DLA fraud is not people making up a new illness. It is people who were genuine claimants and who when their condition gets better, either don't declare this or actively pretend it hasn't improved.

entropyglitter · 09/01/2012 12:10

From each according to their ability and to each according to their need. If you can work then do so...but everyone should have a decent standard of living...that is what society is for...looking after each other...

pmsl at swanning around in a new cat.....

lesley33 · 09/01/2012 12:11

It is lying because I wouldn't actually need someone with me. I did say "pretend".

alemci · 09/01/2012 12:13

but then how do some of these people manage such deception. I do not begrudge anyone who is in genuine need claiming but I think there are people who should hang their heads in shame who are defrauding the system.

For example people subletting their council property.

WhingingNinja · 09/01/2012 12:14

Tilly - you were claiming that because you know of two people that YOU believe to be exaggerating their ailments in order to receive benefits that the well publicised and undisputed statistics the government have of 0.5% fraud rate for DLA must therefore be inaccurate.

you were suggesting that the DLA is easy to decieve.

As a person who has had to complete those 40 pages of questions detailing every aspect of why my son isn't "normal", why he is less of a person than his similarly aged peers, why he has no choice but to face a life of ridicule and judgement from people like those on thsi thread. Who has had to appeal twice. Who has had his rate dropped despite him easily fitting the criteria for the higher rate but is still so haunted by said form and hoop jumping that i simply cannot face re applying, I can assure you that no. It is NOT easy to defraud them It is far far more than merely saying "im disabled give me money"

Peachy · 09/01/2012 12:16

The cars debate nneds to be complimented by a look at wider world as well

Healthcare being centralised o people need to get further toa ccess clinics

Councils (eg croydon) reviewing SEN transport: if they tell me where I live to get to points for pick ups with other kids I am stuffed, equally if they offer me petrol as I have 4 school to cover- two of which are specialists 10 miles in opposite directions! It can't happen.

And people don't need cars? We pay for our own but those who get mobility cars will increasingly need them!

Peachy · 09/01/2012 12:17

Alemci I doubt anyone would argue

When that is used as an excuse to hurt genuines however I do get narked