School playground bulling within NCT groups

[purpleturtle72]

Hello

I joined my local NCT group with my partner when I was pregnant and attended pre-natal classes with the aim, especially being new to the SE London area, to meet other parents and share experiences. The sessions were quite useful but with a now troubling emphasis on "making friends for life", supported by lots anecdotal evidence from the course leader. Fresh from the sessions the newly formed group began to bond and all seemed supportive with jolly emails bouncing back and forth. Yet 6 months on, "school playground" petty jealousies and competitiveness, mosltly vented towards myself, have worn me down. I feel totally pushed out by the group: I know they have met up and not invited me and when I attended the 'official' meetings, one in particular interrupted me every time I spoke, the others, bar one, ignored what i said and on more than one occasion members of the group turned their backs on me as they wittered on amongst themselves. I tried my best to win them over, and not lacking social skills, I listened attentively, I didn't 'go on' about my child, and I contributed by sending emails, mostly suggesting things to do or offering useful links on the web, most passed without reply. Not one to give up, I regularly attended meet-ups until my son was nearly four months old, but now I admit defeat. I have tried to join another local NCT group. A NCT neighbour suggested, I went along with a friend I'd met through Mumsnet to a meet-up of an amalgan of two SE London groups. We both wanted to meet up with them again, however, thanks to the efforts of one of them, who was outright rude to me on the night, thinking it was HER group, we were never added to the email list, and my texts to my neighbour now go without reply! All I ever wanted was to have friends for my child it but appears alot of NCT women, mostly intelligent high achievers with City jobs, are driven by snobbery and status, and they have already decided my son, as they have me, isn't worthy. I feel that NCT should include in their sessions the importance of excepting and supporting each other, whatever their social or ethnic background or other personal circumstances. NCT feels to me like an elite members club, overwhelmingly white and middle class in a very multi-cultural part of London. In light of my negative NCT experiences, I have now joined a local mums' groups and it's re-freshing to meet such down-to-earth and balanced people for a change and to be accepted for who I am. To close, here is a question for the NCT charity, why offer concessions to lower income families knowing they will be isolated by such a class conscious and elitist lot, only to eventually drop out?

There is the potential for this to happen in all groups, and sadly it seems it happens frequently in groups of females.

I didn't do the NCT thing, but did meet a group of women through a local baby massage class. One of the women and I entered into a business relationship outside of the group which she insisted I keep secret, yet for various reasons it didn't work out and she proceeded to be pettily bitchy and make really outrageous comments about her "clients" which were wholly directed at me (unbeknownst to the rest of the group), as well as making all sorts of statements about the estate I lived in which she viewed to be "lower class".

At the same time, she would bitch to me about everyone else in the group any time she got me on my own, as though we were bosom buddies . Toxic lady.

I cut all ties with the group. It really was absolutely no loss. It is very much like the first year of university. It can work out and you can find friends for life, or you can find that you just don't click at all with these people who you have been thrown together with. You have less in common than people at work or university, you have literally just had kids. That's all that you have in common.

Don't take it personally. It doesn't matter what the NCT say or don't say, these things will happen. Just move on.

I never joined NCT groups either and many of the mums I met where members but did not stay in touch with the mothers. NCT groups do seem to have a bad name and attract a "type" of person. But I do know one mum who loves her group and is still friends years later.

So I guess you were unlucky!

It sounds like you have found a nice group of down to earth people to be around so don't worry about the other lot. You can't please everyone and not everyone will click, that's life.

Good luck! x

I haven't any experience of NCT, but I think you hit the nail on the head towards the end of your post.

If you don't like the group you're taking your baby to, look around and join another.

I found the one I preferred to go to with DD1 on the third try, the other two made me feel a bit isolated, but in the end I found one where the other mums not only welcomed us both without being too overbearing, but I still know some of them 8 years down the track

(plus there were tea and biscuits on offer )

What are you trying to say? I was and never have been a member of the NCT but don't tell them that! explain later, but yes whilst I agree that their is a lot of playground behaviour, I found that most members where absolutely lovely, and yes it does attract middle class mums, because if you are low income you are not even going to think about it as it cost money. but you have moved on and that is whats important, find a group that suits, I once organised a take over of a increadably clicky playgroup which was reaching melt down as the numbers joining was crippling the lady who ran it, as in she couldn't cover her costs, due the the rep of the members, after hearing the same sob story from about the 20th mum about what a bunch of bitches they where, I organised a non group get together, we all got on a a couple of weeks later suggested our met up was at said group, safety in numbers as it where.
well it went swimmingly and 3 of the 8 problem mums left within a couple of weeks and the rest stayed D & G glasses and all, and where really nice, pleasant people who just like us all wanted to be excepted.

joining the NCT, never seemed to get round be bothered to join, went to all the meetings that interested me, very active volenteer and non member, asked once at a NCT sale by one of the committee for my advice (this is a huge sale they do twice a year and a real fund raiser but sale items open to public) "I have had a few non members phone and ask if they can sell at the sale, do you think we should let them?" me "well yes! because nct take 25% of their sale, so nct will benefit" I did this with a straight face

I don't think that kind of behaviour is unique to NCT babygroups, it happens in lots of groups of women. It's not nice but you are doing the right thing in moving on from them all. Let them turn on each other in time, as they will do, as groups of women like that need a victim to ostracise or pick on.

I went to a health visiting service arranged "post natal" group when my eldest, now 13, was a baby, and it was very cliquey there. One know-all woman was Queen Bee with everyone listening in awe to her talking about herself and her genius child. When the post natal group ended we took turns to go to each others' houses each week and it was awful; competitive mums and everyone doing whatever the Queen Bee mum wanted if we met up anywhere.

Look don't waste anymore time on them, are there local mum and baby groups about? What about Surestart? As your son gets older you will make more friends outside, I am so glad that I never joined NCT, they do sound horrid, not only your experiences but others I have read on here on MN. They sound very superficial tbh, would you want friends like that! Move on, find other non NCT groups in your area.

They are not your friends - move on. Regrettably it happens and I don't think it's anything to do with the ethos of the NCT. When I joined I thought the organisere were a bunch of kaftan wearing liberal lefties with an "anything goes" approach providing you wanted a waterbirth and to slump on beanbag. Not my bag at all so I only went to two classes.

They sound dreadful

Unfortunately you can't blame it on nct, it happens wherever you get a bunch of women on my experience!

I did do the nct classes and found them really helpful. 8 years down the line I am still friends with one of the couples but that's down to other shared interests. One of the other couples do obviously didn't like me but that was ok as I thought she was an over bearing cow

Anyway what I'm trying to say is that you will find cliquey groups anywhere.

If you don't mind saying, where in se London are you cos that's where I am and I may be able to tell you about some other groups that I found very welcoming and friendly

Dear God, I cant think of anything worse than coffee mornings and the like with a load of tree hugging, cat knitting, pube plaiting, lentil weavers.

Be thankful you got out alive.

On a more serious note, you cannot put X people in a room with one common factor and expect them to have anything in common at all. You will find this again in the school playground - you and the other mothers have one thing in common, a child in a school. At work, you have one thing in common - you work for the same employer. It's totally false.

These people are not your friends, they are transient acquaintances. "Friends" are something very different.

I just would like to say that not all NCT groups are like that - I have made wonderful friends from my antenatal class, and the best thing is they are people I would probably have not tried to be friends with in everyday life due to preconceptions and stereotypes.

It's a shame you have had such negative experiences of making friends with children, for me it has been one of the unexpected pleasures of having kids (and not just through NCT but also other baby groups and surestart). I'm glad you have also made good friends now.

I don't think it is the NCT's responsibility re the bitchiness after, but I think they could do more to widen their demographic. In our area one of the midwives directed a couple of mums that way, and I think that helped our group be slightly more diverse.

either you were unlucky or you have some kind of personality defect. It's hard to tell froom your post.

not all nct groups are like that though.

Why don't you join your Mumsnet local and go to the meet ups in your area? Your antenatal group did sound like a horrid bunch of women, and I am surprised you spent so long to be friends with people who were really nasty. No its not the NCT fault, they cannot control who joins the groups, you were unlucky with the women in your group.

I found the local NCT group to be a witches coven of people with ishoos, I am sure not all are like this, but as my experience is not uncommon I think there is something about it being partly a belief system that attracts a certain type of person.

I suggest you try some other groups in the area, the NHS ran stuff in our area so that may be a start.

you should have given up earlier instead of trying so hard, I think.

If they are boring snobs, leave them be!

You will make new friends for your DC. when he is older. He will make his own friends too.

I made most of my "mum friends" at the local park and at playrgroup really.

don't worry about it, this bunch was just "not for you"...

I met lots of Mums and Mums-to-be when I was expecting and when mine were babies in lots of different places. This included both the hospital and NCT ante-natal classes. I found those I met through the NCT were great - and especially when dd was 1 and we moved to a new city where we didn't know anyone. I think you just have to feel your way and hopefully find a group where you feel comfortable. I found local toddler groups very friendly too. It's horrible though when people are unfriendly. Luckily I've not experienced this much with my children, though I've come across it much more in the world of work.

I didn't do NCT but met some lovely new mummy friends in clinic and local church baby group. I'm not in the slightest bit religious but it's such a lovely crowd.

Well, NCT classes are very expensive so do tend to be upper-middle-class social clubs.

If you're not that type of person, don't go. I went to NHS ante-natal classes and a baby group at a Children's Centre and met lots of women who were more like, and made a few good friends (our babies are 18 months now).

NCT is just a group of mums whose babies were born at the same time sometimes you have something in common, more often you won't.

NCT were the antithesis of snobby status driven women where I lived: much too hippy dippy tie die for me

purpleturtle72, I would say you have had a lucky escape if you can get out of this while your DS is only 4 months old.

I was in a similar situation with my NCT, although they weren't bitchy or horrible, it was hard work trying to keep up, but for some reason I was damn determined to do so. I did a pretty good job until DS1 was about 7, and I just thought feck it, these people aren't for us. I realised I was stressing about not sending my DC to private school and, which cars we had and where we lived so these people would accept us. I'm now not in touch with any of them.

I wish I'd had the guts to get out when DS was 4 months old.

Our NCT group was fine and we spent a lot of time together until people went back to work, but then drifted apart naturally

Until I got to the end of your post, I was confused why you bothered persevering with a group of people who were unwelcoming and unkind to you. Poor you. Much better to find people who are friendly and welcoming. Crowds of women can be pretty unpleasant at times

Groups of women are intimidating. End of.

When my son was born I went to a couple of groups, but, as a local teacher I felt quite vulnerable being with the parents of the kids I teach (wasn't NCT). My son is also SN and I got sick of the looks.

Then I had a hideous experience at a mums and toddler group which still makes me shudder. However me and my son were warmly welcomed at a local church group (we're not religious at all) and were regular there.

It's up to you to pick and choose really. Some people are just not joiner-inners. Some groups are heinous though. NCT always struck me as posh, and hence scary.

How much do the NCT antenatal courses usually cost? The website seems to avoid the topic...

Depends but over £100 if do it via a course - joining fee that allows you to go to meet ups is less.

I do hear that not all NCT groups are like this but I too had a stroke of bad luck with my NCT group.
It really upset me and in a strange way made my first few months of motherhood very very hard for me.

I wish someone had warned me it was a club for the wealthy in my area, I really do.
I actually thought I had done something wrong as I was left off email lists as people couldnt spell my "unusual surname" when I did go along I couldnt participate in their discussions about nannys, gyms, new cars, city jobs and holidays. I bailed quickly as I just felt a frost toward me. They made me feel really bad as my pram wasnt posh enough, I didnt have a car and lived in the less well off part of town.
I hadnt met people before who actually judged others based on money and I was really shocked. It was the very last thing I needed at the time and it took me a long time to recover.
However recover I did, and have made some pals. Not loads, not yet, but that comes in time I hope. Also I find things change as the kids get older you join new groups, preschool starts and you make some new friends again.
Good luck, join some other activities and dismiss your NCT group from your life and from your mind.

www.nct.org.uk/courses/course-prices

seems clear to me.