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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

School playground bulling within NCT groups

126 replies

purpleturtle72 · 08/01/2012 01:03

Hello

I joined my local NCT group with my partner when I was pregnant and attended pre-natal classes with the aim, especially being new to the SE London area, to meet other parents and share experiences. The sessions were quite useful but with a now troubling emphasis on "making friends for life", supported by lots anecdotal evidence from the course leader. Fresh from the sessions the newly formed group began to bond and all seemed supportive with jolly emails bouncing back and forth. Yet 6 months on, "school playground" petty jealousies and competitiveness, mosltly vented towards myself, have worn me down. I feel totally pushed out by the group: I know they have met up and not invited me and when I attended the 'official' meetings, one in particular interrupted me every time I spoke, the others, bar one, ignored what i said and on more than one occasion members of the group turned their backs on me as they wittered on amongst themselves. I tried my best to win them over, and not lacking social skills, I listened attentively, I didn't 'go on' about my child, and I contributed by sending emails, mostly suggesting things to do or offering useful links on the web, most passed without reply. Not one to give up, I regularly attended meet-ups until my son was nearly four months old, but now I admit defeat. I have tried to join another local NCT group. A NCT neighbour suggested, I went along with a friend I'd met through Mumsnet to a meet-up of an amalgan of two SE London groups. We both wanted to meet up with them again, however, thanks to the efforts of one of them, who was outright rude to me on the night, thinking it was HER group, we were never added to the email list, and my texts to my neighbour now go without reply! All I ever wanted was to have friends for my child it but appears alot of NCT women, mostly intelligent high achievers with City jobs, are driven by snobbery and status, and they have already decided my son, as they have me, isn't worthy. I feel that NCT should include in their sessions the importance of excepting and supporting each other, whatever their social or ethnic background or other personal circumstances. NCT feels to me like an elite members club, overwhelmingly white and middle class in a very multi-cultural part of London. In light of my negative NCT experiences, I have now joined a local mums' groups and it's re-freshing to meet such down-to-earth and balanced people for a change and to be accepted for who I am. To close, here is a question for the NCT charity, why offer concessions to lower income families knowing they will be isolated by such a class conscious and elitist lot, only to eventually drop out?

OP posts:
Cherriesarelovely · 08/01/2012 21:35

I had a similar experience albeit 9 years ago. I didn't realise it would be snobby. I was the only single parent in my group and the only one on any kind of a budget as far as I could make out, I felt like an absolute freak. When I was back at work struggling with lack of sleep and PND one of them said to me "Oh yes, but it must be nice for you to have some pin money"!!!! I said to her "It's not pin money, it's how I pay my rent!" I also ended up going to a local group organised by health visitors and made lots of good friends there.

magdalene · 15/01/2012 20:27

Hello purpleturtle72 (great name- did you name yourself after the pub in Camden?). I'm sorry you've had such a horrible experience and hope you are meeting more like minded people now. I had a similar experience with the NCT and it made me withdraw for a bit but I later found friends from playgroups etc. I found the women at my NCT group (also in London) very judgemental and snobby. It was competitive too and the women didn't appear to have any other interests beside their children. Yes, I know it's good to share experiences of feeding, nappies etc but it does get boring and there's more to life - obviously they didn't have much of a personality to start off with! Try not to see it as your failing - it's their loss and they sound worse than small children in a playground! Goodness knows what these mums are teaching their children. Perhaps we could meet - I am in North London and some of the mums here can be really, really intimidating!

NormanTebbit · 15/01/2012 20:35

NCT - coffee mornings in massive houses. A friend held one in her flat, the harridans lovely mums turned up and not one person spoke to her.

Op - go to a local toddler group, bounce n, rhyme etc etc. you will soon recognise faces and make friends.

(funny to think of high achieving 'city' types living in SELondon!)

NormanTebbit · 15/01/2012 20:37

It is basically a middle class introduction agency.My mum was a fervent NCT person but times have changed, I think.

Boomerwang · 15/01/2012 20:50

I don't get it at all. In any other group of people would you still come across this kind of behaviour? I don't think I've experienced anything like it. Is it a mum thing? I'm not a mum yet. Is it a woman only thing? I've got to say I've been put off joining any sort of baby or toddler group because I have read about bitchiness, here and elsewhere.

annieee · 15/01/2012 21:05

Don't be put off Boomerwang, I think the NCT gets a hard rap because people like me (who can't afford the sessions) get pushed out, but there are plenty of lovely groups around. My postnatal group has a real mix of women from different backgrounds/areas/incomes and thankfully everybody is really accepting and genuinely nice. Some people you get on with better than others, but we all make an effort, and I know I go out of my way to speak to people who seem a bit more shy, I'd like it if it was the other way around!
When I had DD we went to a few playgroups in the local (posh) area and was looked at like scum. Snobs really don't bother me though, makes me laugh that these woman think a big house/4x4 and a fake tan makes them a better person and that their child will automatically be a genius. I would hate for my children to think thats an acceptable way to behave!

catsrus · 15/01/2012 21:12

well my experience is a long time ago - but my NCT group in London for dc1 was great and we all stayed in touch through dc2s, babysat for each other etc. Then we moved out of London to a small city and the group I joined for dc3 was cliquey & very hard work . Coffee mornings in houses where the carpet was cream, the furniture was cream, there were cabinets with glass fronts and ornaments inside - and the children's toys were neatly stored in labelled boxes.... I nearly had a coronary every time one of mine had a biscuit or a drink in their hand or wobbled walked towards the cabinets. If my second group had been my first experience of NCT I wouldn't have lasted long.

It's luck of the draw, some groups you gel with, some you don't - I don't think you can rely on artificially created groups like that for friends tbh - all you have in common is babies the same age - you're more likely to make friends when you have something in common with the other women, sport, hobby, work etc. I haven't made any lifelong friends through my children but only through my own interests.

spottydogpencilcase · 16/01/2012 00:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

porcamiseria · 16/01/2012 09:41

NCT mainly populated by middle class women, who for some reason have this competitive SHIT going on

middle class Mums can be real cunts I have to say, of the many breeds out there they can be the worst for compeitiveness and cliquey ness

cut your losses and make some more "real" local mum mates

I know its hurtful, but hopefully you will have seen enough feedback to see that they are the arseholes, not you

trim the bitches, delete their num,bers and make a fresh start

THIS WILL PASS

Hardgoing · 16/01/2012 12:29

Dumping my NCT group of gals (who had been bitching about me and raising eyebrows, talking about topics excluding me etc) was the best thing I ever did. I don't know why I put up with their not-so-subtle putdowns for so long.

I met one lovely lady from the NCT group, who I stayed friends with when I stopped seeing the 'gang', but she was too nice for her own good and they also bitched about her too.

I don't think this is to do with my personality, I have plenty of female friends, but there's something about a group sometimes which encourages those that are in the inner circle and those who are excluded. I am thankful I realised the inner circle wasn't a nice place to be and moved on!

Northernlurker · 16/01/2012 12:35

I think this sort of thing happens whatever group you're in. When dd1 was a baby. I knew two women with dcs the same age. Eventually I realised that they were doing stuff together without inviting me - which is fine - but it was constant. It really upset me, I was very young, had few friends and one in particular thing they were doing was something dd really liked. It was absolutely killing to know they were planning to do that thing and didn't bother asking me - in fact discussed it in front of me without inviting me. It's hard to explain unless it's happened to you but if it has happened to you you know there's nothing you can do with that group. You just have to move on. Dh would say 'why don't you say 'can I come too'' and I would really struggle to explain what a huge wall was put up to stop you saying that.

Northernlurker · 16/01/2012 12:36

Ugh - just writing that has reminded me how awful that was. OP - this too shall pass but it is very hurtful.

Miette · 16/01/2012 12:46

My NCt group were nice, but the women i met at my NHS ante natal group were horrible. I finally gave up on them when my dd was 18 months old when i was nearly reduced to tears by their cattiness and sneeriness. (The only crime i can think of that i committed was that my accent was slightly posher than theirs.) Why did i keep trying with them for as long as i did? I have no idea and i wish i hadn't bothered. At the time i remember crying and thinking "What's wrong with me?" but now i realise i am perfectly capable of making friends and i do so. I've made plenty of mum friends, but this has tended to be with individuals i have met along the way who i have hit it off with, rather than a ready made group of bitches women.

NormanTebbit · 16/01/2012 13:06

I found it hard the time to 'keep up' with some of the alpha mummies at the NCT who had a very dofferent lifestyle to mine. They were older and conversation centred around where they were going on holiday/weekend and what extortionate music class was the most fashionable best and what schools were private offered the best all round education for their sensitive, highly intelligent offspring. Grin

That said, similar conversations were to be had at local toddler groups but the difference was that there were more peple to talk to and sooner or later you find people who share common interests or are skint like you

Garliccheesechips · 16/01/2012 14:51

Oh God. I can see I'm going to make some enemies when I start NCT in a couple of weeks.
(Big mouth strikes again).

porcamiseria · 16/01/2012 15:35

Its hard as its not just you, its your child. any anything that makes your child excluded hurts at your very core

here is my thinking, when you work in office you just get on with it. no expectaton to be bosom buddies. These Mums are in effect work collegues, but we expect friendship. Thats why we get so many anguished posts on these lines

I have had similar issue with with neighbours , with small kids

lots of empathy from me

being a SAHM can really SUCK for this very issue

purpleturtle72 · 16/01/2012 16:26

Hi there Thanks alot ladies and gents. it's refreshing to know that i'm not the only one who has had this experience. I have joined lots of activites and there is a local mum/baby group in my local church hall that meet up once a week..
Also I know it's not the fault of the NCT, and yes it's luck of the draw. I have been a member of socieites and groups before it's been a blast. I think i had high expectations and unfortunantly this time it was not right for me. I do think the NCT should be informed as from the replies it does happen alot and they should be made aware and to include a workshop on getting the group to bond whlist on the pre-natal course etc.

thanks

PT x

OP posts:
ditziness · 16/01/2012 18:13

Yeah I had a similar experience with my nct group. Totally felt invisible in the room, they all talked over me, arranged to meet up without me, made snide comments about my parenting style compared to theirs. Is topped seeing them when ds was about 6 months. Don't miss them. Have since met lovely folk through playgroups, so it's fine. I was very disappointed, sad and paranoid about it at the time. Took me back to being at school, and not being in the popular group of girls.

nursenic · 16/01/2012 18:19

The common denominator whenever this happens is not so much class or race or social factors as it is being female...

Sadly women can be so vile to each other.

My favourite quote (which has something to do with this thread...?) is ....

"There is a special place in hell for women who do not help other women"

                                                                      Madeleine Allbright.
catsrus · 16/01/2012 18:21

I really do think it's unrealistic to expect to get on with people just because their children are the same age as yours! While some of my close female friends are mothers - only a couple of them have kids the same age as me. Most have older kids, some have younger, the three who have kids the same age as me I met online in a forum not dedicated to motherhood or parenting and none of them live anywhere near me.

It's useful to be friendly with other mothers (play dates etc) but the older your children get the more important it is to be on reasonable terms with their friends' mothers! Nothing worse that being friendly with someone and your kids loathing each other Confused.

Maybe you need to make a distinction between "being friendly" with the other mothers and "making friends"? I wouldn't rely on mother/child groups for making friends.

neolara · 16/01/2012 18:26

Surely one of the joys of being a grown up (instead of a girl who has to go to a particular school for the next X many years) is that if you don't like a group of people, you can just leave them to their own devices and go and find some other people you do like.

toptramp · 16/01/2012 18:39

I joined the local nct commitee as a single mum and they are very middle class. No further comment!

ditziness · 16/01/2012 18:46

yeah i did, eventually. I think the shock of encountering people acting like they did as an adult just shocked me so much I couldn't work it out for ages.

toptramp · 16/01/2012 20:02

I just found it so boring and felt totally out of place as a skint single mum. A bit odd really; like a refuge for yummy mummies. I did meet some lovely mums elsewhere though.

Garliccheesechips · 17/01/2012 12:50

OK, did anyone on MN go to NCT and meet people they got along with?
I ask because I've paid over £200 for the classes & it wasn't to learn how to push a baby out my fanjo.

Confused