‘What is bullying? How to avoid your child being a victim??

[lisad123]

I had a letter home from DD1 school about a workshop they are running, and the title is "?What is bullying? How to avoid your child being a victim"

Im sorry since when is it a childs fault that they are a victim!!

AIBU, to think this is not on and they would be better to educate parents about how to stop their children NOT to be a bully, rather than blaming victims

I was not suggesting that clever kids should be told to dumb down, mamamamoose, not at all.

It isn't about G&T children as such, being only a small number of children you can't exactly make it all about them.

Nobody is sayign tehy should dumb down- I'm sure some could do with a few lessons in patience and humility though to make themselves more likeable.

Hmmm. Most bullying I deal with is not just one, isolated evil child mercilessly picking on everyone else for no reason. Yes, that does happen, but it is rare. The two most common sorts:

1. The child who EVERYBODY picks on because they are, frankly, wierd, annoying, smelly. How do you solve this situation? I know it's not the child's fault, but they would also be treated badly in later life because people DO judge by appearances and adults are equally evil. You can tackle it by ranting at all of the rest of the children in the school, but that is a shorterm strategy.
2. The situations which are actually probably best described as friendship fights. They may exist as situations because (usually with girls) actually the people involved want to be friends either with somebody who doesn't want to be friends with them or have had a temporary fight. These can be the most distressing and destructive sort.

In both these circumstances, I think it would be better to tackle the 'victim' than the bullies: in the first situation because it's teaching good life skills; in the second because it is teaching conflict resolution or how not to be needy.

I suspect that the 'bullying' workshop is actually going to be introducing these ideas. It should, yes, have a big section about being nice to people too!

shit wording, but agree with littleducks

one of the hardest things. and also have alot of empathy for crazxygal too

Surely you'd agree, though, Tortu, that it's usually the bully who is the sad loser with the serious emotional problems? Why else would a human being feel a need to make other people unhappy?

I think bullies often justify their behaviour by saying that the victim is "stuck up" and who therefore needs taking down a peg or two.

I worked once with a lovely boy who was obviously being bullied a bit. He bounded into the room one day showing the others a sought-after new book he had got. He was obviously delighted with it, and proceeded to show it around. Unfortunately his tone was very much " I've got this but you haven't." The other children affected a lack of interest and he was crestfallen. Later they were working on something to do with food and he began to talk about cooking. He said "I make a great xxxx, I'm really good at yyyy, I'm a really good cook." You could hear his parents in what he said, obviously trying as we all do to raise their lovely son's self-esteem. But it wasn't how the other kids talked. It sounded like bragging. One of them said to him "No wonder you're so fat." (And he wasn't.)

He didn't deserve any of that, he was 100% not to blame. However, I could also see that what he was saying had irritated the other children and made them think they needed to bring him down.

I expect some people would say he deserved to be punched.

They might do. I really think that if you ever find yourself thinking that someone you know is just soooooooo up themselves you just wish you could find some way of cutting them down to size, then you are in danger of becoming a bully yourself.

This is really interesting as a parent of a DS who has just started primary school and is wondering if any bullying is going to happen in the forthcoming years.
If anybody does want any particular advice about bullying can I recommend Kidscape who have a fantastic helpline for parents of bullied children (or those who are bullies)? They also run free assertiveness training sessions for children who have been severely bullied.

Kidscape would definitely say don't blame the victim. So it's depressing that so many MNers would say do.

Lisad123 - if you go on the course, would you report back? I'm curious. Thank you

Its an interesting question 'what is bullying' - and the wind up merchants/ prone to errupting child is a good example ... I wonder about the small, slight girl in ds's class who last year had a tendency to kiss the boys, during lessons, constantly, much to their irritation. It got to the stage where even air kisses wound them up. And the expected result happend (they were 5 and 6) - boy thumped girl, boy got told off, girl got off scott free. She'd done similar things with some of the girls too - mainly pinching and whispering that got the girls in trouble for responding. To my mind, although this was completely lacking in any hurt, the fact that she appearaed to be deliberately doing it to get other children in trouble was bullying. Luckily it appears to have stopped this year.

I think there is a place for teaching ALL children social skills. Some children have a complete and utter lack of empathy without being autistic. The special school I used to work in taught children protective behaviours

I would like ALL children to do a protective behaviour course. They would learn to express their feelings appriopiately and it would help them to develop good social network.

Bullying is complex. It has existed since apes learnt to to stand up.

This thread is quite upsetting for me. I was bullied as a teenager. My parents got my teachers involved, then I ignored the bullies, I wouldn't let them see I was upset, I answered back, I did everything they say you should. They only stopped when they found someone else, after about 2 years. During this time an adult said to me that there must be something about me that causes people to bully me, and that's stayed with me for 20 years. I'm more bolshy now, and have stood up to bullies in the workplace etc on my and other people's behalf (ie I do not see myself as a victim), but still when I meet new people I get nervous because I can't shake the feeling that I'm inherently dislikeable because of what that adult said. It makes me angry and sad that people seem to be so accepting of bullying and so happy to blame the victim for standing out or whatever.

Sorry, that turned into a rant!

My own view is that the "weakness" bullied people have is often kindness, and a willingness to accept that they might be wrong. It's easier to stand up to bullies if you believe you are never, or rarely, wrong. And it's easier to keep bullies off your back if you stand by and allow them to bully other people. Much easier.

That's pretty perceptive, Mamama. I'd agree, having watched all three of my (very different) kids come home at times wondering what is is that makes other kids hate them -- rather than wondering what it is about the other kid that lets them pick on people.

'big mouths, bullies and so called friends', by Jenny Alexander, brilliant book for victims, any child or parents.

Sleepychunky thank you for that info on kidscape x

slightly going off tangent here, but was called into the school yesterday as DS1 had (in the words of the school nurse) "ran into a wall playing football". I had to go in to administer Savlon and he had a huge old bump with a cut on his eye socket bone. Felt really sorry for him as he was trying to not cry (he is 8) and lots of his peers were around. Anyway, I knew something wasn't quite right with the story and about an hour ago a friend called to say was DS1 ok? I asked her why and her response was according to her son that he had had a fight with a year 4 boy over the football and been pushed"

So, would you call the school or wait until you had spoken to son??

sorry, will re-post elsewhere, it is not slightly off tangent, but totally off as in no way am I saying he is being bullied! Been a long day!

I would speak to your son then call the school. Then again, will he tell you?Hope he's ok that's terrible for him

Hmmm. But I think it is very rarely as simple as there being one bully or even a couple of bullies. Yes, it is really straightforward when this is the case and in those cases the victim is usually an inadequate and needs help/ punishment.

This week alone though, I've dealt with:

1. A child who is called 'fish'. Now I have no idea why, but I suspect this is a racist thing that I can't fathom. He reacts really badly. But it is ALL the children in a class who are involved and they quietly mutter 'fish' under their breath as he walks past. I have spoken to them about it, but what more can be done? There are some really lovely children who are doing this- definitely not your standard bullies. This is definitely at the stage whereby he would be more embarrassed if I made a big deal out of it. For now, I am giving out detentions to anybody who uses the word with the excuse that it annoys me.

1. A girl who cried because she knows her friends don't like her. This is really, really common. Honestly, they haven't done anything that they could possibly be punished for, but it is along the lines of, 'a feeling' or, 'no they talked to me at lunchtime, but they were too polite' or, 'she looked at me funny' etc. What on earth do we do in that situation? I will sit these girls down (again) and have an intervention, but basically girl a just needs to accept that they don't want to be friends with her and go off and find some nicer friends.

I'd like to echo reallytired and advocate protective behaviours. I suspect that this is what the course is about and it really is just more social skills.

talk to your son and let the school know too, it may be a one off but if it's not they will have a record of it for future.

I don't think it is a matter of blaming the bullied, but how to deal with it.

I feel that bullies often pick up on vulnerable people. So, it is useful to find ways of being less vulnerable, and learn how to respond to bullying.

Unfortunately, having a passive attitude that it's all about the bully and that other people should protect the bullied, may actually make the problem worse.

If children and parents get the tools to avoid being bullied (or to deal with it if it happens) all the better, IMO.

pixierara, I have enrolled my son on a self-defence class geared towards dealing with bullying.
Not that he is being bullied, but I have found it very useful.

The other day a girl came to see how it worked, because she was being physically bullied by girls in her class (primary school). She learnt a few simple moves and applied them the following week. According to the parents, those girls have not messed with her again.

I wouldn't do much after one fight, unless it became too common. Children must become "street wise" without too much parent involvement.