Since when does having a lot of books constitute not looking after your home?

[PeaceofCakeAndGoodWineToAllMN]

This is a rant!

I was sent a letter a week ago from the agency who 'look after my house' telling me that they wanted to visit. That's fine, I look after the house, clean the carpets/arrange for the windows to be cleaned, walls are spotless etc. I don't ask them to do any repairs as they have yet to do anything that I've asked them to do apart from the boiler. I've been here for 9 years, the kitchen window doesn't close if I open it, the cupboard door was falling off so I removed it, that's about it.

Anyway. I have a lot of books. I write for a living so most are reference books and things which publishers have sent me. The books have outgrown the 3 book cases so I have three piles on the floor in the living room. It turns out that the owner of the house made a visit when I wasn't here and has complained to the agency that the house is a mess! Outside by the front door were four bags of newspapers for recycling, there's also a strip of dirt with some plants and a few (3) weeds. In the kitchen (visible as it's at the front of the house) which has 3 small tubs of nick nacks on the floor and 6/7 unwashed glasses. She must have come into the house as they commented that the rest of the house was a mess (books) and the back garden needed cutting. The back garden isn't accessible apart from through the house as there's a 6ft locked gate at the side of the house.

AIBU to think that a few piles of books doesn't make a messy house and that she had no right coming into the house when I was away? They have asked me to 'declutter' and are going to return in three weeks. AIBU to tell them to piss off?

Well it's more than a a few piles of books isn't it? Be honest...it sounds rather messy and maybe to your eyes it's fine...but altogether to the owner it must look neglected. If they want you to declutter then tell them they must fi your wndow and cupboard.

Why on earth did the LL come into the house while you were away? Did you give permission?

Unless "no clutter" is a term of your lease, tell them to p1ss off and make it clear that no one is to enter the house again without your permission.

They should have told you when they wanted to visit. As for the decluttering; if they think it's way overboard with the number of boks , papers etc. I suppose they have a case for saying it's a fire risk. maybe they think when they next visit it'll look like the chap's off the hoarders programme the other week

YANBU! Firstly it is your home, to live in and enjoy. I would see the point if you had bags of rubbish everywhere or you were allowing the property to get damp etc but you are not.

Also, surely there is something in your contract that states visits (inspections) have to be at a pre-agreed time?

No! Apparently she was 'passing'

There isn't a 'no clutter' term. It is literally three piles of books. It's not messy (bar the glasses on the side in the kitchen).

I would think it's not within their rights to ask you to declutter, unless there's a health or safety issue or your mess is creating a structural problem to the house itself?

As long as the house is clean to a livable standard and you haven't caused damage to the property I can't see what the problem is. And wouldn't think they would be able to force you to declutter?

But I am not a lawyer and so am not sure completely of tenancy rights and responsibilities?

Are you really really sure that is all it is?
I have friends who are candidates for that tv show about filthy homes but they think it is just some normal household clutter and a couple of mugs that need washing up.

Having said that - as a tenant you are entitled to live as you please as long as you leave the property in a clean condition when you go.

I would want to know when she entered the property without your permission - because that is absolutely not on.
No need to tell them to piss off though - getting arsey never solved anything.

I think (dont quote me on this) that Landlords must give 24 hours notice before visiting, and are certainly not allowed in if you are not there.
As for mess, each to their own. I live in clutter, its not dirty but like you I have a lot of books, DVDs and games. My family consider my house to be neat. My in-laws cry whenever they visit! Apparantly, books and ornaments should be kept upstairs out of sight of visitors...

How is their business anyway?

As long as the walls, carpets etc are clean i.e. they can expect to receive the place back in a good condition should you move out, it's not business how many books/knick knacks you've got lying about.

She has no right at all to enter your house without you being there, but is it possible that she just looked through the window.

It does sound like you need more storage though.

Books: Get some more bookshelves. You can buy some simple wooden ones really cheaply. I have hundreds and hundreds of books in my house and they look so much better on shelves. Box any up that you're unlikely to read soon, do it by category if needed and store elsewhere - e.g. the loft if you have them. I generally print out a list of what is in each box so I can find it easily if I need to.

Boxes of nicknacks - they will look like clutter if they are in boxes on the floor, but will look OK on shelves. Ikea do some shelves that you can put storage boxes in as well. That could be a good solution for the nicknaks and the books.

This is one of the downsides of renting - that other people can imput on your life.

Be honest with yourself - do they have a point about clutter? Can you see more floor than is covered?

I don't have a problem with the way I live. The books are not in the way, they are under the table so hardly a fire risk. If the hall was cluttered with papers and books then it would be a fire risk. There's nothing in the hall except for the carpet cleaner (which I bought so I could clean their carpets!), a couple of bags of compost (so I can do the garden when it stops bloody raining) and an ironing board. The house is very small, it looks cluttered even though there's not a lot in it. Still doesn't give her the right to come into my home when I'm not here though. I signed a contract when I moved in 9 years ago, nothing since then. It did say 24 hours before an inspection.

it is 24 hour notice to visit. But the tenant doesn't have to be there. The LL can let themselves in if they want to.

Seriously, they are not meant to enter your home without prior warning. I would be more angry about this than the stupid request. It's your home, your lease and as long as your not breaking the terms they have no right to tell you what to do.

My house must be a tip, we have around 3,000 books!

Oh, and she's not allowed to let herself in without permission.

There's really no space for another book case. I have 2 and a corner thing, the house is really small. She would have entered, there's no other way that they would have known about my overgrown back garden otherwise as there's a 7 ft locked gate and an 8 ft wall surrounding it. There's no storage apart from the small cupboard under the stairs. I can't get into the attic as it's too high and has no ladder. The house isn't dirty, I just have a lot of books (and by piles I mean 1m tall). Should I draft them a letter?

I suspect she's looking to sell but yanbu. They'd have a fit if they came to my house.

Sorry, I am reading. I'm just so and am answering you all in one way or another.

Bags of compost, in the house ? if your house is tiny why dont you put them outside.

Should I draft them a letter?

I wouldn't just yet - phone the letting agency to begin with and talk to someone about it. Find out what actually happened - if she did enter your property.

I think they are looking to raise the rent. The agency said she wants to replace the boiler and paint outside. This is the woman who would rather pay to have it repaired every three months then buy a new one. There's nothing to paint outside as it's brick!

I would be replying to inform them that I was taking legal advice as to my position now that I had discovered that the landlord had illegally entered the property without permission.

I would remind them as part of this that it is legal for a tenant to change the locks whilst in residence, and that I would be looking into this. However, perhaps an apology on this point could satisfy me that this action would not be necessary.

I would go on to acknowledge that it was refreshing indeed to see both the agency and the landlord finally taking an interest in the state of the property, as this has been a subject close to my heart for some time. In answer to their enquiries, I would go on to provide a full list of all repairs necessary, and include a bill for those undertaken by myself, as they had failed to do so in a timely manner.

My final point, after this long list, would be that the state of tidiness of the house was a non-issue and I would take pleasure in reasssuring them that any further interest in this point would be construed as harrassment on their part and a breach of the law on peaceful enjoyment of the property. I'd say that I was sure that they would be relieved to hear that they did not need to worry about this, as it would allow them to concentrate their energies on the repairs that are their legal responsibility. Again, I would be taking legal advice on this at the same time as looking into changing the locks and taking further the issue of trespass.

Happy New Year, landlord and agency! :)

Email the agent and say that you are aware they need to give you 24 hours notice of a visit and that you are not interested in their opinion about your books. Also say that it is winter and that the garden will be cut in the spring.

There's only 2 old merry, they are not the flat ones so don't take up any space.

Twas the letting agency who came out today. They said she had a look around and said it was a mess. I should have asked more questions. She must have come in, there's no other way she'd have seen the back garden.

I'm agog at how your home might be described as cluttered and messy - we're talking 3 piles of books (unless they are all versions of the Times Atlas or Encylopaedia Britannica, they aren't going to "cover" the floor), some unwashed glasses (which presumably aren't a permanent feature) and some bags of recycling (ditto). There's no way they should have come in without your permission and you need to emphasise this to the agent ... how the hell are you supposed to live ? .... on permanent alert in case the LL turns up unexpectedly ? Every single piece of washing up done as soon as it's created, never placing anything on the floor and perpetually traipsing to the local tip ?

Great suggestions from Crunch !