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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to think some people either have no sense or tact or just have a very warped view of the world ?

86 replies

dezfree · 04/01/2012 19:38

Twice today I met people in work - who commented on my betrothal (engagment) ring (and seen my wedding folder on my desk - because yes that is what I do in my lunch - ohh and the aunt has been univited apparently my uncle is fumming - according to my cousins), asking when wedding is etc? (as plently of other people have)

But both these people instead of asking how me and to-be-DH met/how long we have been together (as others do/have)

One asked: Is it an arranged marriage?
The other: It must be hard arranging an arranged marriage, you don't even know the person you are marrying.

Yes to english ears I just have an accent. (I am Egyptian)
Yes I have an Arabic first name and a surname that people assume is completely Arabic.

But really?
Do these people really think that these are acceptable questions to ask someone?

Or is that just people's first thought/assumption when meeting someone they have never met?

OP posts:

fatcaaah · 04/01/2012 23:27

Wedding folder I liked.

Laundry folder I love

Get0rf · 04/01/2012 23:45

I missed the laundry folder bit!

That is fantastic. I too am in awe of someone that organised.

I would love to see how tidy the OP's kitchen cupbaords and wardrobes are.

MrsJAlfredPrufrock · 04/01/2012 23:54

But is it an arranged marriage though?

WilsonFrickett · 05/01/2012 00:00

I even have a mini folder for the cleaning/washing

Slightly off topic but WTAF do you put in it????

Binfullofmaggotsonthe45 · 05/01/2012 00:03

Show them you red scalp where he grabbed you by the hair and dragged you from the room when you met, thereby proclaiming you as his?

Then rig up a false menu in your file, consisting of boiled sheep heads, snake soup, monkey brain sorbet etc a la Indiana Jones?

And definitely tell them you'll be bringing the bedsheet to work.

I was also thinking of Friends - but where Rachel and Ross make up the wedding where the dove puts the ring on her finger etc.you could go to town.

Or your dignified answer would work..

at your organisational skills...

WorraLiberty · 05/01/2012 01:13

Show them you red scalp where he grabbed you by the hair and dragged you from the room when you met, thereby proclaiming you as his?

They asked if the marriage was arranged, not forced

There's a big difference

Ihatecbeebies · 05/01/2012 01:20

You are definitely not being unreasonable, your colleagues were rude and ignorant! I wouldn't be able to stop myself from having a laugh at their expense with a comment such as 'I really hope I'm prettier than his other 4 wives, I guess we'll all find out on the wedding day when we are all introduced to the groom and we can finally see what he looks like too!'

trickycat · 05/01/2012 01:32

I too need more information about your mini folder for cleaning/washing.

IndieSkies · 05/01/2012 01:37

Unless these people ask ALL collegues planning a wedding it it is an arranged marriage it is presumptive and rude.

Thumbinnapuddingwitch · 05/01/2012 01:38

Thoughtless and heavy handed question - if they'd wanted to know, they could have been diplomatic about it and asked where you met - that would have been far politer! But as for the one who actually assumed it was an arranged marriage, that's just bloody rude.

Sounds lovely, btw, especially the dress!

WorraLiberty · 05/01/2012 01:45

Well I'm not sure really Indie

The OP says I have an Arabic first name and a surname that people assume is completely Arabic

I think that's probably what prompted the question

I still don't see it as anything to get riled up about, unless perhaps the OP is dead against arranged marriage...in that case I can kind of understand her being pissed off.

nooka · 05/01/2012 04:03

Why would you assume that someone with an Arabic name would necessarily be having an arranged marriage? That's a pretty huge assumption isn't it? The only person I have ever known who had an arranged marriage was the older sister of a British Pakistani girl I went to school with, but I wouldn't assume that every Pakistani I meet would have an arranged marriage.

I worked with an Egyptian lady, and I never once thought to ask her if her marriage was arranged or if she was arranging or considering arranging the marriages of her daughters.

MayaAngelsFromTheRealmsOfCool · 05/01/2012 04:05

It is plain cultural ignorance, isn't it? The assumption that all Arabs are Muslims and all Muslims have arranged marriages. I'm sure it's well-meant curiosity but oh good Lordy preserve us from well-meaning ignorant questioners - they are so tedious to deal with, however polite you are. It reminds me of when I was at secondary school - every time a new child who happened to be black joined the school, someone would ask whether we were related. They were not meaning to be rude, but good grief such a dumb question.

Surely a better wedding-related question, dez, would have been to ask where you're from and what weddings are like in your home country/ will you be having a trad wedding, etc etc.

The hilarious Indiana Jones comment earlier in this thread has reminded me of the hideous scene early in The Temple of Doom where General Arabic Peoples are dancing and howling with evil glee round a camp fire. I believe there was even some firing of guns. Because that is obviously how all Arabs celebrate...well, just about anything.

OP, I fully expect that your wedding will involve this type of fire dancing/ incantation/ random shooting and maybe a bit of goat sacrifice? Camel races through the desert?Could you add this to the picture of the wedding which you're going to create for your colleagues? And then tell them how your 95-year-old husband-to-be specifically requested a teen bride so you hope he doesn't refuse to hand over the dowry of 14 sheep, 12 cows and a lifelong subscription to The Cultural Eejit? Bet they think it's a magazine all about arts and culture in Egypt!

NunOnTheRun · 05/01/2012 04:53

No, YABU to think some people either have no sense or tact or just have a very warped view of the world....

NunOnTheRun · 05/01/2012 04:56

Sorry, YANBU

sausagesandmarmelade · 05/01/2012 07:03

Unfortunately such staggering levels of ignorance does still exist.

Challenge it!

neshnosher · 05/01/2012 07:12

I live in an area where it's majority muslim and the norm is arranged marriage of one sort or another so ignorance isn't the reason why you were asked....just explain it to who asks maybe they genuinely want to know.

My next door neighbours thought we were Christians because we are white and English,we're far from Christian but I wasn't offended by them presuming.

noblegiraffe · 05/01/2012 07:20

Why were you offended at being asked if it was an arranged marriage? Do you think that arranged marriages are culturally backward rather than a different way of doing things that some cultures practise?

Latsia · 05/01/2012 08:07

Why in earth would they ask that?! Why would you ask that?!? I think that's what I would say to that question. Really, why would anyone ask that?! It's just ignorant.

I'm assuming they weren't talking just about the logistics of arranging a wedding?!

Because otherwise its just strange, rude and ignorant and YANBU!

Also loving the wedding folder though.

WorraLiberty · 05/01/2012 08:46

Why would you assume that someone with an Arabic name would necessarily be having an arranged marriage? That's a pretty huge assumption isn't it?

They didn't assume anything...that's why they asked

I don't think we can have it both ways when it comes to other people's culture. You can't realistically not want people to ask questions and call them 'ignorant'. Knowledge is gained by asking questions of the people around you.

I accept some people will find some questions personal, but then they're totally at liberty to choose not to answer...the same as we all are.

Latsia · 05/01/2012 08:56

WorraLiberty I think one of the colleagues did assume it was an arranged marriage. The other one asked if it was but clearly there was an assumption, otherwise - as OP states - the next question would have been "How did you both meet?"

WorraLiberty · 05/01/2012 09:02

You're right, the second one did assume and personally I think that's ignorant.

But I don't think the first one wanted to assume anything...hence asking the (albeit personal) question.

I don't know. Maybe it's just me but I'm really interested as a rule in the lives/cultures of people around me and I have to admit it irks me a bit when people accuse others of 'ignorance', yet they get defensive when people ask simple questions.

In that case, every single person in the world can be labelled 'ignorant' as I doubt they know everything there is to know about every culture in the world IYSWIM.

Latsia · 05/01/2012 09:13

Yes I do see your point and as someone who takes an interest in other cultures and religions I agree.

I think that was probably OP's point also to a degree. There are assumptions borne out of ignorance, assumptions borne out of bigotry and just general rudness and these are examples of all three. Was one of the colleagues genuinely trying to find out more about OP and / or her cultural background? I guess not enough information to know that for sure.

TroublesomeEx · 05/01/2012 09:13

Latsia They could have asked that, yes. But if the OP had had an arranged marriage, her AIBU might have been "AIBU - colleagues asked how DH and I met without considering that, due to our culture, we might have had an arranged marriage. They assumed that we'd met our partners in the way that they had."

It's a tricky one. Assuming is silly, but people assume all sorts of things. Asking is fine, that's how we find out all sorts of things.

My friend had an arranged marriage. I was quite surprised when she told me. I don't know many Asian women and it hadn't occurred to me that she might have done. I asked her questions about it once she had brought it up, but it didn't occur to me. Does that make me 'ignorant'?

Perhaps the person who asked just wanted the OP to know she'd considered that it might be a possibility in an attempt to appear aware that not all cultures are the same. So as not to offend but did so anyway!

In that case, every single person in the world can be labelled 'ignorant' as I doubt they know everything there is to know about every culture in the world IYSWIM. exactly.

Latsia · 05/01/2012 09:25

Well I have made some enormous assumptions based on the wedding folder!!

(kidding OP )

I don't know. Coming back to OP's question I can't decide if i don't like the question because of the cultural implications or because it's a really personal question but it's certainly doesn't sound like a working environment that would keep my blood pressure low!

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