Unauthorised use of credit card

[DMAGA]

My children are now relatively grown up now, aged 19, 17 and 13, but their former nanny still helps out part time with school runs etc. I have previously allowed her to use my credit card to buy petrol, groceries, items for the chiildren etc. Yesterday she told me that she had used my credit card to pay for an electricity bill and some food and was sorry, but she did not think that I would mind and would pay me back. Her grown up son has just moved back in with her and she said it was because of the expense of keeping him and the cost of Christmas.
I am not sure how to respond to this. It was New Year and I had relations over and it wasn't an appropriate time to have a long discussion, so I just said to keep the credit card in the drawer and not to do it again. However, AIBU to feel uneasy about the situation and worry about any ongoing relationship?

She stole from you. How you want to proceed is up to you.

Oh and change your PIN.

She shouldn't have used the card without your authorisation (personally I think it was foolhardy to allow her to use your card anyway...but I'm guessing you had a close friendship with this person - even so, it sounds A little bizarre!).

She has effectively stolen from you. She has owned up. I would give her a deadline of when you want the money paid up by and stick to it.

You are responsible for keeping your credit cards secure....I would not give her a chance to abuse your trust again.

Definitely change your pin and I would thoroughly check your statements now...to ensure that this isn't a one-off.

If there are further incidences then you should consider prosecuting this person.

I'm really torn on this one, whilst what she did was undoubtedly wrong - it seems that she has been a long-employed loyal employee who is perhaps just going through a mega shit time and was desperate.

There were a few times for me when I seriously pondered using my company Amex for desperate essentials (petrol to get to work plus food!) But was saved by money coming in last minute. I had hoped that if I'd explained my employer would've understood.

It's not like she's taken it up the King's road and returned laden with bags. Can you talk to her to ascertain the extent of the predicament she's currently in? Given that you are the employer of a nanny, I expect you're very resourceful and have quite the business brain on you and possibly have some good ideas to get her back on track.

Oh dear totally wrong in my view and a serious breach of trust. It's theft really in my view. How is she planning to pay it back? This will need to be discussed ie when the bill comes in or is she planning on letting you pay it and then paying you back sometime later?
You need to give some serious thought to how you deal with this. In my opinion it's misconduct/ gross misconduct but I'm not an hr person. I wouldn't expect you to have a clause in her contact to say don't steal from me.
Do you know the amount ? I suppose you could take it from her wages if that would cover it.
I think it's a sacking offence.

I think you need to consider if you need to keep her employed, from the ages of your children I would have thought that they should be fairly able to manage, one is an adult and one is virtually an adult and they should be able to manage to look after themselves cook a snack for themselves and their sibling and get themselves to school.
While you give some thought to this at the very least I would he removing the card and changing the pin.

How long has she been a nanny to your children?
Would causing too much fuss over this impact on your children?

If she has been with your family a long time and you trust her then I would give her the benefit of the doubt. You haven't caught her she has come to you and admitted to something. I would suggest changing the pin and leaving it at that. I imagine how she feels and knowing you know what she has done is punishment enough...............

This by sausages: 'She has effectively stolen from you. She has owned up. I would give her a deadline of when you want the money paid up by and stick to it'

And then take the card away (put it where she cannot access it) and change the PIN. If she needs things for the children give her cash and ask for receipts.

In this scenario where she has confessed rather than left you to find out, and where you have a long term ongoing relationship with her I don't think I would take it any further than this personally but you are perfectly within your rights to do so.

She has been with us for 8 years and has been committed and flexible, has been on holiday with us when the children were younger etc. I would like to think that this can still work out. Her main problem is that she is not good at managing money. I kept her on full time for as long as I could but I just don't need a full time person any more so she has taken a drop in income.

I gave her lots of notice so that she could get herself sorted out and said she must do what was best for her even if that involved leaving and getting another job. She now does jobs for other people as well but doesn't seem to be able to sort herself out and has got into debt. I know that she has also done this before and took out a high interest loan to consolidate the position but wasn't able to keep up with the payments.

I used to provide a car and now she is finding it diffciult to cope with the cost of fuel and insurance etc. I know that her overall income is not much but i do feel that she is living beyond her means. She has three horses which she keeps with us and i am now beginning to worry whether or not some of the horse related items on my credit card are for her horses (my children also have horses) and whether they are eating our horses' food. I know it sounds petty and in many ways she is lovely and seems very caring of my family. But I do feel a bit shaken by this.

Who can afford 3 horses if they cant afford food, electric and fuel and car insurance?

Oh blimey, 3 horses aren't cheap. :( I have one and I'm on a fair wage...

Is it possible you can call your feed merchant/vet/farrier and establish if any erroneous charges have been made? Or, in the case of the feed merchant - are they supplying more than would be necessary to feed your animals?

If she's living beyond her means do you suppose she's actually aware of it? 3 horses is ridiculous of course - who has time to ride 3? If you've got to work to pay for them you don't have the time to ride them all! Are you paying her a fair wage? Although if she's getting use of your stables + facilities that's got to be worth ~500 a month (for 3) - even on a DIY basis. :(

I think a good sit down chat complete with tea, biscuits and a box of tissues might be in order. You're not her fairy godmother and you can't make all those bad debts disappear, but perhaps if she can admit to herself how far it's gone then you can help her draw up a plan. E.g., there are lots of "good" debt advice charities and the like, perhaps insolvency or bankruptcy for her? Get an ad in H&H to get rid of one of the nags? Sell a spare saddle etc., etc. I know it's not the best time to be selling horses and/or equipment - but need's must et al!

Oh dear,she has overstepped the employer/employee boundary. Remove the card,change pin etc & go through recent statements. I'd also tell her you will be doing this & going through all expenses etc for the stables.

Do you really still need her as a nanny or are you keeping her on part time out of pity?
It sounds like in some ways you are preventing her moving on and taking responsibility for herself. That would be OK if you actually needed her working for you, but it sounds like you dont want to bite the bullet and tell her and so instead are providing her with an unecessary job and free horse stabling.

Bear in midn you don't need a pin ot use a cc online or by pohone , so you may need ot report it "lost" and get replaced. The suspicion is going to eat away at you now. If she has had access to it , her son may also, can you trust him if he isn't paying his way ? She needs help to get a grip on what she can afford.

Oh for goodness sake. She didn't steal from you as there's no intent to permanently deprive. What she did was borrow from your credit facility, which s contrary to the terms and conditions of he card but hen so is her using it or legitimate uses for her son. So long as she pays you back before the payment falls due, there isn't actually a problem. Don't let it spoil good relations between you all, but do perhaps think about leaving a cash float instead, in future.

Oh for goodness sake. She didn't steal from you as there's no intent to permanently deprive. What she did was borrow from your credit facility, which s contrary to the terms and conditions of he card but hen so is her using it or legitimate uses for her son. So long as she pays you back before the payment falls due, there isn't actually a problem. Don't let it spoil good relations between you all, but do perhaps think about leaving a cash float instead, in future.

What?!!!!!! Are you serious!!!!

She didn't steal because there was no intent to permanently deprive????? Are you crazy???

She took (didn't ask...but took) without authorisation something that didn't belong to her. She defrauded her employer.....
Whatever the ins and outs of this were...she (a grown adult...not a child) STOLE and abused her position of trust.

and you suggest the OP leaves a float? Whatever happened to accountability?!

Suggest you check the definition of stealing in the dictionery - to take unlawfully or without permission! It has nothing to do with whether there was an "intention to permanenty deprive"

OP I think you have been way too lenient with your 'employee'. If you are to continue to employ her (in her minor role) then you really do need to set some very clear boundaries and guidelines....

Yes, she did steal. If the employee worked for a large, or even small, corporation, and used her company card for personal expenses, she would be immediately sacked for gross misconduct and theft. I know someone who did just that. She's still look for someone to hire her.

OP you have the option to be more lenient, but I do think you need to sit down and discuss how she abused your trust and stole from you. And I think you need to tell her she needs to get her finances in order before you will trust her with the credit card or anything else again.

sausages - from a technical perspective I'm afraid you're wrong. The criminal definition of theft does require intention to permanently deprive to be an offence.

That however is different to whether the OP can continue to trust the employee.

Could you set up a "children's stuff" account with a card and no overdraft facility, and put a small amount in it to cover stuff the nanny may need to get for the DCs. That would be a lot safer than the arrangement you have now, and you could go through statements to check expenditure.

I suspect you are going to find that these transactions she has owned up to are the tip of the iceberg. The stealing probably started with horse stuff as that will be all mingled in her mind with your own horse expenses and she won't see the join there.
If I were you I'd do a full audit, get to the bottom of it and sack her. You can explain why to your children and it's a valuable lesson to them about how highly you rate honesty.

I pay her £200 per week for doing the school run and caring for my children's 3 ponies although she will give lifts to the station (in our car) or run odd errands. She is paid the same in school holidays as she was worried at not having a 'regular' income. She earns about £120 from other jobs and has a pension of about £60 per week (she is in her 50s).

She previously had another horse with me but this has now gone 'on loan'. She had told me that one of her 4 horses belonged to a friend and she was taking care of him but that he was paying £80 towards the cost of one of my horses' food, as he apparently eats a different type. I never saw the money, she said it was being paid into her bank account and I don't know whether or not she bought any food - I tend to think that she did but not £80 worth per month. i don't ride so I don't really know.

However, last week I asked her for a copy of the insurance for the other horse as i was concerned that it should have 3rd party liability insurance. She was a bit vague about this and eventually said that it was on her insurance. I asked her whether the horse belonged to her ( I had previously made it clear that 3 horses was the limit and said that she needed to cut down to two at most - she only rides one of them, anyway). She said that it definitely did not belong to her but then came to me the next day to say that it did belong to her but that she had taken him because his owner didn't want him and he would have been shot otherwise. she then told one of my daughters that she was going to try to sell him 'to try to get some of her money back'. They are a bit upset that they now know she has not been open with them about the situation.

I do still need help because of my work commitments and I don't really want to take on a new, unknown person who may not be as reliable or flexible. But I do feel upset that she has not been entirely honest with me in various respects. The poster is right who said that she needs to learn to take responsibility and we have had a chat about how she needs to work out her income and outgoings etc. I know that it is up to her to sort herself out and that I need to be careful about the credit card etc - but it is a worry if you no longer feel that you can completely trust someone, especially as she is supposed to be house sitting for us when we are away at Easter.

I think you should now remove access from the credit card immediately and give her the money upfront if required to cover expenses related to your children. This might be more hassle to but seems like really the need for the card is much less than it used to be in any case. Or you could introduce your children to the concept of budgeting and give them money to cover these expenses.

Ensure she has a schedule to pay you back and sticks to it.