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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that it's not for the nhs to pick up the bill to remove potentially faulty breast implants?

357 replies

wannaBe · 02/01/2012 14:55

There are calls today for women who have had the faulty French breast implants to have them removed on the NHS. Apparently 40000 women have these implants, and to remove all of them would cost the NHS £150 million.

Now, if a woman has had these implants as part of reconstructive surgery following mastectomy then I agree that she should be able to have them removed. But other than that, if you choose to buy yourself bigger breasts (and let's be honest, leaking implants are not a new thing), then it isn't the nhs's responsibility to pick up the tab if there might be a problem.

If your life is in immediate danger then you would obviously need to have surgery on the NHS, but just on the off-chance? I think the company responsible should be the ones picking up the bill and don't see why the taxpayer should shoulder the responsibility for other peoples' vanity.

OP posts:
BetsyBoop · 02/01/2012 18:58

"In my opinion, if you paid for them privately, sue the surgeon who put them in for using sub-standard products, sue the company if you can. But unless they rupture or cause imminent danger to life, then they should not be removed on the NHS."

Exactly my thoughts

NHS in = NHS fixes

Private in = private fixes unless imminent danger to life, then the NHS can remove (not replace)

Implants are not guaranteed to last a lifetime anyway I don't think? If that's correct then surely anyone having them done privately would have some cash put by to hopefully sort out any problems that might occur? To do otherwise would be a little silly...

LurkingBeagle · 02/01/2012 18:58

Most just want to look and feel 'normal' and why shouldn't they have that?

Casette - I'm all in favour that if they want to ignore the (very well-known!) risk of rupture. It's not a choice I would ever make because imo it's not a rational or sensible one, but it's up to those women if they think that risk is worth it. They should not look to a public health system to fix anything that goes wrong. This is one case where I really think the NHS should say "tough!" although I accept it's probably not the only one.

I think that's where we differ.

slavetofilofax · 02/01/2012 18:59

I 100% agree with you Wannabe.

EnjoyResponsibly · 02/01/2012 19:00

midori1999 BRAVO!!

ToothbrushThief · 02/01/2012 19:03

Cassette I would like great breasts. I cannot afford it...and tbh would not do it because of the risks. I do understand how you feel but have made a choice.

Financial decisions are made in the NHS daily. Many go without the best drugs and the best care because we cannot afford to fund it and the NHS takes a risk with their action.

This is one of those risks that should be borne. It does not always rupture or cause cancer. It does increase the risk. If a a woman has problems they should then be assessed along with a woman like me who has saggy post b/f breasts and a lump.

For me to be sidelined in order that the nhs deal with the concerns of women due to their cosmetic surgery and knowledge of a hypothetical risk......is not right.

Northern lurker is speaking a huge amount of sense and with good background knowledge

alemci · 02/01/2012 19:04

Lady Beagle I have to agree with you. Unless you need a reconstruction due to a mascetomy should you bother with implants.

should we not be happy with our bodies the way they are made. I can also understand if someone has a breast reduction op if they are the cause of backache.

LadyBeagleEyes · 02/01/2012 19:05

WTF difference does it make what your breasts look like if your alive to tell the tale?
The NHS is not there for vanity reasons, if you don't have perfect boobs, tough.

maypole1 · 02/01/2012 19:11

They already do, my oh did a rotation in plastic surgery unit and it was full of women getting their private plastic sorted out

Personally is old make a law that you always have to have double the amount the amount t get it done and the amount to put it right if it gose wrong

ShellyBoobs · 02/01/2012 19:12

More fool you, ShellyBoobs! You might have felt differently about your breasts if you had developed cancer at a young age. Like me

Yes Lurking, and if you'd been born with a severe cleft lip and palate, like me, you might have more sympathy with some people who have cosmetic surgery.

maypole1 · 02/01/2012 19:12

LadyBeagleEyes sadly it is I know a few people who have had Brest reductions and implants ECt

ToothbrushThief · 02/01/2012 19:16

A cleft lip and palate is totally different to cosmetic surgery because of your desire to comply with the medias portrayal of a 'normal' woman

LurkingBeagle · 02/01/2012 19:18

Sorry about your cleft lip. I don't really think you can compare corrective surgery for that with people wanting bigger boobs though. In an ideal world, people would be grateful for their health while they have it and a bit less obsessed with their appearance. As someone above said, I don't like the idea that cosmetic surgery is in any way "normal" i.e. just because you're not 'perfect'.

FWIW I have a 10 inch scar on my abdomen from cancer surgery which is disfiguring. I have no desire to get it "fixed" because I am happy to be here to tell the tale.

ToothbrushThief · 02/01/2012 19:21

There is a lot of emotive comments on here defending cosmetic surgery and impling they will die from cancer unless they get NHS funds to correct/update their surgery.

Cosmetic surgery can be separated into clinical need and vanity. Nothing wrong with vanity - we are all vain to some extent. However expecting another person to fund your cosmetic improvement programme to change what is essentially a normal breast into a breast which meets with barbie's definition of a breast is wrong.

Cancer is a risk for all and we all up our personal risk with various lifestyles. You live with that risk and accept NHS treatment when symptomatic.

For shelly who felt that finding money was important because of the emotional distress of living with smaller saggy normal boobs..... I guess finding money to allay your fears about an increased risk of cancer will also be a priority?

Original poster
wannaBe · 02/01/2012 19:28

What does a cleft lip have to do with having breast enlargements? Confused

My right eye is cosmetically horrible due to damage caused by glaucoma a couple of years ago. It is likely I will have it removed in the future due to pain management issues, and when that happens it will benefit me cosmetically. but I certainly wouldn't have it removed for cosmetic reasons alone.

If people have issue with how I look that is their issue not mine.

OP posts:
Hedgeblog · 02/01/2012 19:31

On the smoking issue "We pay for our own health care because we pay tax" Here's some facts...off topic I know sorry.

Against smoking

  1. In 2006 2.6 billion was spent on smoking related diseases through the NHS
  2. Smokers take marketed more sick days from work than non smokers
  3. Non smoker work longer due to better health and therefore pay in more in general taxation over their lives

For smoking

  1. Because non smokers live longer the cost more through pensions
  2. Taxation through cigarettes contributes somewhat to the 2.6 billion NHS bill.
Hedgeblog · 02/01/2012 19:32

Sorry for so many typos Blush

cornflowers · 02/01/2012 19:38

I'm sure it's an unpopular view, but I actually find the idea of breast augmentation simply for reasons of vanity slightly offensive. By this I mean those cases where a woman wants to go up a cup size or three, or look better in certain types of garment. Friends of mine have had this procedure done & I've told them honestly that I disagree with it. That said, if there is any risk of harm to those that have had the procedure done I see no reason why the NhS shouldn't pay for the implants to be removed. There are countless medical conditions which result from misguided/ poor lifestyle choices of one sort or another, after all. Unfortunately, in a climate of limited funding people will always feel compelled to argue that one medical cause is more deserving than another.

ShellyBoobs · 02/01/2012 19:47

For shelly who felt that finding money was important because of the emotional distress of living with smaller saggy normal boobs..... I guess finding money to allay your fears about an increased risk of cancer will also be a priority?

Not sure what you mean? I have implants, but they're perfectly safe ones.

Of course I'd pay for them removing if it was necessary. The cost wasn't a consideration when I chose to have them put in and wouldn't be a concern if they needed to come out.

ShellyBoobs · 02/01/2012 19:50

What does a cleft lip have to do with having breast enlargements?

I mentioned it in response to someone saying that anyone who has cosmetic surgery is stupid.

gordyslovesheep · 02/01/2012 19:52

Waanabe - yes. Women have died from pip implants no - women who have had PIP Implants have died of cancer - not thought to be caused by the implants

The NHS will end up footing the bill - but it irks - surely if you can aford to have your boobs perked you can aford to have them re=perked - which is something you would need anyway after 10-15 years

I have no issue with women having cosmetic surgery (well actually I have massive issues with it but not with individual women ) but I do get peed off with them expecting it fixed on demand

Northernlurker · 02/01/2012 19:55

Shelley - your insistence on comparing a medically necessary correction of a congenital abnormality with a totally unnecessary procedure to increase cup size is stupid imo.

LurkingBeagle · 02/01/2012 19:56

If you're referring to me ShelleyBoobs, that is not what I said. I said that the risks of implants rupturing have been well-known for years and could have been discovered by anyone with the nouse to use t'internet. (See my earlier post about plastic boob recall in 2002.) Women who chose not to research, or were daft enough to have it done anyway, should not expect the NHS to divert resources to put them right.

If, like you say in your post above, they are going to fund it all out of their own pocket then I don't really care.

yellowraincoat · 02/01/2012 20:00

But what would the alternative be, gordyslovesheep? Because once you start saying what you can and can't have on the NHS where does it stop? Plenty of these women will be told, I'm sure, that they have to wait ages or that their trust won't fund it, same as everyone else.

If we started denying people surgery, then we'd end up denying people with too much money, smokers, the obese, alcoholics, people who don't exercise...you can't just pick one group of people and say "no, you can't have this done because you are vain".

ToothbrushThief · 02/01/2012 20:01

Of course I'd pay for them removing if it was necessary.

Fantastic - this is a non argument then.

  1. You'd pay 2)IF it was necessary

I think this is the argument here - it's a risk and women don't like the risk. In that case, pay...in the same way that you paid because you didn't like the shape.

slavetofilofax · 02/01/2012 20:01

I thought that when you had implants you were made aware that they might leak or need to be replaced or removed in the future.

If I am right in thinking that, then why wouldn't women start saving in case they do need to have surgery again?

There is no question that people who have had cosmetic surgery privately should pay for whatever consequences arise from that. The NHS should only pay when people are actually ill, they shouldn't be paying to remove risks that people chose to take. Surgery in itself is a risk, so women would be at risk during a removal procedure anyway.