to think that it's not for the nhs to pick up the bill to remove potentially faulty breast implants?

[wannaBe]

There are calls today for women who have had the faulty French breast implants to have them removed on the NHS. Apparently 40000 women have these implants, and to remove all of them would cost the NHS £150 million.

Now, if a woman has had these implants as part of reconstructive surgery following mastectomy then I agree that she should be able to have them removed. But other than that, if you choose to buy yourself bigger breasts (and let's be honest, leaking implants are not a new thing), then it isn't the nhs's responsibility to pick up the tab if there might be a problem.

If your life is in immediate danger then you would obviously need to have surgery on the NHS, but just on the off-chance? I think the company responsible should be the ones picking up the bill and don't see why the taxpayer should shoulder the responsibility for other peoples' vanity.

yellow -the NHS does do that already
NICE guidance is:
designed to promote good health and prevent ill health
produced by the people affected by our work, including health and social care professionals, patients and the public
based on the best evidence
transparent in its development, consistent, reliable and baded on a rigorous development process
good value for money, weighing up the cost and benefits of treatments
internationally recognised for its excellence

Of course toothbrush, I don't think anyone thinks you can march into a hospital and demand whatever treatment you fancy.

But why pick on this one group of women? If the trust has the money and there are no more deserving cases and the woman is potentially in danger, why shouldn't they be treated?

If we started denying people surgery, then we'd end up denying people with too much money, smokers, the obese, alcoholics, people who don't exercise...you can't just pick one group of people and say "no, you can't have this done because you are vain"

The difference is that these women are not actually sick. We don't give smokers, alcoholics, over eaters surgery just in case. They get surgery when they are ill. The same as these women would be entitled to cancer treatment if they became ill.

Weekly I sit on a board which makes decisions on life saving expensive treatment

Weekly we turn down patients based on (amongst other things) cost vs outcome

The simple issue is, if we said yes to every need we'd go bankrupt and all desperately ill patients would not be given care. We therefore make decisions on how to spend the money that is available.

Every trust has a budget. It's not a limitless purse

Yellowraincoat - the chances of a funding surplus anywhere are negligible to zero. Elderly people needing hip replacements are not even able to get on a waiting list in many areas at the moment. I know who I would give the resources to...

Yellow, there will always be more deserving cases. Operating theatres have a constant waiting list for people with actual medical conditions. People have to wait months for surgery they seriously need!

....and I'm referring to people who are already ill not potentially ill

I still think the same person who finds money to change the shape of their natural healthy breast will find the money to ensure that breast remains healthy IF they think it is a risk

If the breast becomes diseased then the NHS would and should step in

I'm sure the trusts will look at these women's cases in exactly the same way they'd look at any other. Why wouldn't they? What if the risk of cancer is high enough that an operation will be cheaper than the treatment they might need?

But they have already said that the cancer risk is minimal.

How much does it cost to remove implants? About £5000. How much does it cost to treat someone who has cancer? A LOT more than £5000.

The trusts will weigh up the costs and the benefits. Like I said, why wouldn't they?

You're right yellow- they will.

I still think as a general issue there should be a scheme whereby all cosmetic and private medical work has an insurance policy for picking up the fees when something like this happens. i.e an event costing the nhs (which is based on promoting good health) due to a failure in provision of the private sector (which is based on making a profit).

I guess it's a calculation of how many get cancer vs how many need to come out £150 000

If the risk of cancer meant a smaller cost to the nhs they'd leave them in. It would be up to individuals to take the risk or pay. I'm sure many would pay - after all they did first time around?

Maybe you're right ToothbrushThief. Maybe people should be taking a bit more responsibility and making sure they have the money/insurance in case things go wrong.

I just feel like people are picking on these women because they're seen as vain and I don't like that.

Ok two things - having a breast implant op because you want to change your appearence (without any other illness causing a problem first) is vanity and secondly nobody is picking on anybody. Some treatment will be funded by the NHS and some won't. I hope this won't be - but that is not victimisation.

yellow the point is that this is not victimisation, rather a case of perfectly healthy women demanding to be treated in a manner over and above the general public.

The NHS does not fund treatment to alleviate worry. It does not fund preventative surgery even where there is a proven higher risk of cancer.

You can certainly argue the economic sense of that, but for everyone, not just this select group.

There is no proof of cancer here. There is merely a suggestion that these implants are more likely to fail than others. Even the rate of failure is disputed.

there is a significant clinical distinction between surgery to address disease, prevent or limit spread of disease, address body image dysmorphia, or augmentation after mastectomy. as compared to no specific physical or mh reason, elective surgery for cosmetic reasons

no one us picking on anyone, but elective cosmetic surgery is different from clinically required surgery.and of course it is viewed differently.and given finite resources, and financial squeeze on trusts it's contentious topc

I haven't seen any article, wubblybubbly, where the women have demanded they have them removed on the NHS. Could you point me towards one?

yellow the press is full of them. One particularly vocal woman was speaking on BBC 24 all day yesterday. Just a quick google will bring up a host of articles I'm sure.

However, bemybebe is right in her most earlier up the thread. The call for an immediate removal of all these implants is being made, in the main, by the president of british plastic surgery association

there's a fair amount of recipients asking for nhs intervention

I have googled, I couldn't see any articles stating the women's opinions, just that someone from a panel thinks they should be removed.

not most but *post, obviously.

Dont these bean bags have to be replaced after so many years, well the vanity filled women who had it done abroad privately can find the money to get it sorted out earlier than anticipated.

There should be a public outcry if the money comes up for this when they are closing special care baby units across the country, shutting down casualty departments and amagamating them with others further away.

When you cant get an NHS dentist for love nor money and have to pull out your own teeth, I've had to do it, now they want their fucking breasticles operated on for free! Fuck right off and get a grip, your tits, your implants fuck off.

Really? I simply typed in PIP implants and got loads. There's also, I understand, a facebook group too.

When you cant get an NHS dentist for love nor money and have to pull out your own teeth, I've had to do it...

Are you for real?

You smoke but yet can't afford to have a tooth removed and have pulled it out yourself?

not that simple fabby,knowing there is risk in the suboptimal implants remaining insitu then the nhs is in a difficult position.if left in place and complication develop then will be questioned should nhs have intervened in a preventative way.potentially offsetting. cost of future complications