Help with deciding appropriate punishment.

[SleepingWithGhosts]

I am seriously crap when it comes to punishing my children, thankfully I don't have to do it often as they are relatively well behaved.

But DD is currently in BIG trouble and me and DP cannot agree on a fair punishment (as always DP thinks I am going too easy on her and I think DP is being harsh)

Anyway DD is 9 years old (and very grown up for her age). It was my nephew's birthday party today to which we were all going but I am currently heavilly pregnant and not very well and so I said I was not going to go.

My DP was working so my mother kindly offered to take DD along to the party as she wanted to go.

Before going DD was told off as getting a bit mouthy with me (an on-going problem at the moment) and she had quite a telling off for the way she spoke to me. This meant she left for the party in a bad mood.

Once she arrived at the party a few relatives asked her how I was and her response was to tell them that 'mum is faking, there is nothing wrong with me and I just didn't want to go to the party so made up being ill'.

I am absolutely fuming with her, I have been ill for weeks and DD knows this, she has known I have back and forth to the hospital, she has seen me being sick all day every day etc. and it was said purely out of spite as she was cross with me.

Now my sister is not speaking to me as she thinks I am faking illness to not attend my nephew's party, have tried to call and explian but no answer :(

DD is spending the night at her dad's house so she is not home until the morning but when she gets here this needs dealing with as I am really upset that she would cause so much trouble by saying something like this when she knows it not to be true.

So AIBU to ask you all what you would do in my situation if your DD had done this?

What punishment would you say is fitting?

Any chance you can wean her off the awful friends?

tigerlilly Thank you, I was unable to deal with it at the time anyway as I was not there but she is more than capable of remembering what she has done the next morning. She will 10 in a few weeks time and as I said is grown up for her age also.

Blissful I very much doubt she does I agree but she knows she should not lie, she knows what she said was a lie and the way she behaved towards my mum we have spoke about before and she knows she should not do this.

I am not talking about severe punishment here BTW, as I said in my OP I am often too soft on her and my DP thinks I am being so in this situation also but I do think she needs to understand the consequences of what she has done and have something to lose so to speak.

She has been showing this type of behaviour more and more over the last few months and I want to give her a reason to think twice in the future if that makes any sense.

Right now she has no reason to stop the attitude and rudeness as she has nothing to lose by doing it, that's what I want to solve but not sure what is the best way.

She really is a nasty little girl right now, even a close friend pointed it out to me and asked what was wrong as she has is so rude and bad mannered to people.

Worra I have been with my DP for 7 years, DD dosn't remember anything else and is very very close to her (same-sex relationship).

DD is also very pleased about the pregnancy. I discussed it with her before we went ahead and asked how she would feel about it so she has been very involved and knows she can bring up any concerns or worries which she has done.

Since finding out she will be having a sister she has been over the moon and suggesting names, choosing clothes for the baby and asking questions all the time etc.

Random Sadly cannot wean the friends although am trying. DD is now at the age where I am giving her a little more freedom when playing out and as we live in a pretty rough area (hopefully not for much longer though) the friends she has met tend to be a bit rough (allowed to swear, stay out late etc.)

Not all of them are like this and I am trying to encourage her away from the one's who are a bad influence and more towards the better behaved one's but not working so far.

how would you normally deal with a lie

I would make her write a letter to her Aunty apologising for both upsetting her (which she has done), for spoiling the party and for lying about you.

Then I would ask her what she intends to do to make it up to her Grandmother and you.

However, I would also try really hard to remember she probably has something akin to a horrible case of PMT, poor kid!

Blissful I have just been explaining to her why she shouldn't lie, boy who cried wolf etc. This seems to have had little effect.

Chipping That sounds like a good idea, I do feel for her as she is hitting puberty and is so young to be going through all that.

I'm thinking grounding for what's left of the holidays, that would keep her away from the awful friends. Needs to include internet/phone use. Can you stand her being stompy about this until after new year? Will her father back you up over this?
And followed by serious house-hunting in an area which will move her to a new school and fresh start.

random Grounding seems to harsh to me, that's what DP wants to do however. She does not have phone / internet access so not a problem there.

Her school friends are fine, she does not attend the local school, but due to a temporary financial problem we had to move to a cheaper area which isn't known for being a nice place to live sadly.

We do expect to be here for another year or two sadly before being able to move again :(

Her father will not back me up no but that is a whole other story. His response is 'how can I tell her off when she looks at me so sad'. She is daddy's little princess and has him well and truely wrapped around her finger.

She is pretty good at understanding that I have different rules than dad however, although it's not ideal I know.

He does not see her attitude as a problem as says he would rather she was feisty and knew how to stick up for herself then be a target. This to me does not need to extend to rudeness. But I could start a million threads on how me and her dad disagree, he is an ex for a reason!

I'd probably ground her for a while after having a long conversation about the effects of her behaviour. I think that you do need to respond quite strongly to this sort of thing and make sure she absolutely knows that it is not acceptable. I have an 11 and a 12 year old and they do step over the line at times, I think it is a developmental stage that needs boundaries just as much as a toddler does.

I don't think it particularly matters why they are misbehaving, they need to know that there are consequences to being deliberately provocative. Of course they need lots of love and reassurance too, and to talk through why they acted in particular ways or said particular things, but the strong line is in my opinion important to maintain a relationship of respect and to learn that actions do have consequences. My ds has a bit of a cruel streak at times and I really don't believe it would help him to let it slip when he says nasty things.

Yes - she is young to be going through puberty, it seems unfair at an age where she should still be able to be a kid. 9/10 years of being a kid just isn't long enough is it :( Still, although you have to cut her some slack, you also can't have her going off the rails and treating you (& others) in a rude or unkind way.

What kind of a relationship does she have with your friend (the one who you said had spoken to you about her attitude)? If she really likes her maybe it's worth mentioning that 'even 'x' has noticed the change in you and has been upset by it' ...?

How is she getting on at school - how was your last P/T meeting?

What is DP suggesting as a punishment?

I really do think the letter and asking her what she intends to do to make it up to her G & you is the way forward though. It will make her think about her behaviour and the impact it had on everyone else, whereas just grounding her or taking things off her (I feel) can sometimes just build up resentment.

I'm going to go against the grain here and suggest that you punish her so that she understands that actions have consequences. I say this because my sister was a nightmare at this age and rather than punish her my mum would hide what she had done from my dad and talk to her instead. This meant that she didn't understand the impact that her actions were having on others.

One example of this was telling my grandparents to ' f off' and to mind their own business when she had a tantrum in the street after being made to leave a shop before she was ready. My mum's response was to try to reason with her. She only stopped when my grandmother offered to buy me something from the shop as a reward for my good behaviour right in front of her. She was 11.

Another example was throwing her entire roast dinner against the wall when my mum put something on that she didn't like. My mum just ignored the behaviour and cleaned it up. She was 12 or 13 at this point.

My sister was wild and my mum did the best that she could in a bad situation but I really think that she should have punished my sister rather than just spoken to her. (Everytime i did anything myself my sister would report it to my dad and i would be punished immediately so I quickly learned that actions have consequences and rarely got in trouble) She is now an adult and whilst the extreme behaviour has stopped due to maturity, she can still be very rude and rarely thinks of how her actions would impact on others because she has never really learned that it does.

I think you need to punish her, especially as it seems to be an ongoing problem.

I would disagree that she is "grown up for her age" she sounds like a young girl who is struggling with her emotions (poss puberty based) and who is being influenced by the "new" friends and doesn't know how to say "no" to them Otis scared to say "no" in case they call her a baby etc.

My DD is 9 and also going through a phase of back chatting. We discuss why it isn't acceptable and then explain that if it continues that she will lose privileges, eg no Simpsons for 2 days or having her 3DS confiscated. That way she is responsible for her actions.......works pretty well.

She needs to understand the ramifications of lying, eg she probably won't get to see her cousin (as often) now - I think she should be encouraged to write/phone Auntie and explain - even though by the sounds of things your sister may think you have put her up to this. You could also write to your sister to explain ........ invite her round for coffee etc.

Your DD needs to understand as well how hurtful she has been to her nan. She sounds as though she needs you to let go of the reins a but and allow her some more freedom. Could she walk to her dad's in the daylight ( or part of the way) on the understanding she calls as soon as she arrives?

I think making her apologise in person will have more effect than a letter tbh, as she'll have to face the embarrassment/reaction in person. You can ask her who she said it to (don't tell her who you know about, so if she omits anyone you can ask 'and what about Aunty X?'). Then take her to each person's house so she can apologise in person for lying - if possible pre-warn people so they won't just say 'thats fine don't worry.' - as that'd be deeply irritating and defeat the purpose.

I also agree with your DP about the grounding - it has the double benefit of keeping her away from the bad influences and punishing your DD. Make it clear that if she misbehaves in the future then there will be similar serious consequences.

Okay, have I got it straight: these unpleasant friends are new ones, not from school but the local area? And you are in a same sex relationship? Do you think these "friends" could be bullying her, due to her being different? Going to a different school and having a Mum in a same sex relationship? Is she trying to "fit in" with them?
I think you need to help her keep up with her school friends, and to cut ties as much as possible to these new ones.
Do also make it clear to her that a) she is not a horrible person, b) other people have feelings. Try to praise her for her good behaviour and ignore as far as possible the bad.
Maybe you can get her to write a letter of apology, first to your Mum for being so rude, and then to her Aunt for telling lies.

I would have a long chat with her, ground her and get her to write notes of apology to your sister and your mum.

You don't ignore the fact she's been a little madam. You just don't punish her.

You discuss her behaviour with her each and every time she is a 'little madam' till she understands why she can't behave like that.

At what point do you stop with the ineffectual crap and actually deal with the bad behaviour though???? Its no wonder so many kids run rings round their parents when they know full well that they can do whatever they like and the worst case secenario is a bit of an "in depth chat"..

Make her wear a t shirt that says "I am a Liar" on it for however many hours you think will have the desired affect. Tell her that next time she will be made to wear it outside somewhere where people will see her - or to school.

In the past, when I have caught ds3 lying, I have made him write lines - "I must not tell lies, lying is dishonourable", or something similar. It is a boring and unpleasant thing to have to do, repitition of the chosen phrase may help drive the message home, and whilst doing the lines, they are not getting to do whatever it is they enjoy (ds3 doesn't get to use the xbox/ps2 or his pc until the lines are done). Plus it has to be neat, so practices good handwriting.

Make her wear a t shirt that says "I am a Liar" - what??

Lying isn't something she is, it's something she did (though that method is a good start towards making her see herself as "a liar".) Plus, shame never does anybody any good.

I'm in favour of full, considered apologies. Lines aren't a bad idea either, though possibly not on top of the 'sorry' letters.

It was wrong of her to say that you were faking illness and that needs to be discussed and a small privilege needs to be withdrawn. For example, no DS or computer or pudding for two days. You need also to talk about why your dd said that although from the info you have given it is easy to imagine.

Divorced parents
You have a dysfunctional relationship with your sister
You are in a lesbian relationship (nothing wrong with that but probably not easy for your dd, esp if you are not in a leafy, liberal suburb)
You are heavily pregnant and the pg has been difficult
You and her father have different views in relation to boundaries
DD is starting puberty
DD is mixing with a new group of not very nice friends

WOW! Your poor daughter - how about spending a bit more than one night a week of quality time with her - her status quo is absolutely about to be shaken to smithereens. And you are sitting there talking about punishing her and complaining nobody backs you up. How about, like your former husband, making dd feel she deserves to be a princess and that she is part of the centre of your universe.

I'm with Chipping and others that suggest a letter of apology and explanation that she has lied. The humiliation of that should be quite a punishment in itself.
She is 9 not 5 and needs some consequences. I would be cross with her and exasperated.

Thing is though, the situation sounds like it has been exacerbated by the difficulties between you and your sister. If your mum just dismissed it as she knew you were ill, it was your sister making a big deal out of it which is childish behaviour. Yes it was childish behaviour of your DD to lie in the first place but if your sister had listened to her mum and not let it bother her, it wouldn't have had the reaction she was hoping for, would it?

I would go with the letter of apology and explanation. She put you in the position-she should be the one to sort it.

I would also be a bit worried about the relationship with your sister if she believed DD over you, when she has known you a lot longer.

Punishment doesn't seem the right move. Surely coercion will only lead to further resentment on the part of your DD? I think the right course would be to talk to her in order to rouse some form of sympathy in her towards you being ill and the sadness her lies have caused, so that she will learn for the future?