my ex has just announced he wants the kids for christams

[workshy]

my ex -who hates christmas, has never had anything to do with it and spent the last one we were together in bed, -has just messaged me to say he is assuming he is having the kids this christmas as I had them last year!!!

this is the first time he has mentioned christmas, it's my weekend to have them (mutual agreement, no court order) they are expecting to go to my parents with their cousins and are looking forward to it, he hasn't bought them any 'santa' presents

just want to tell him to fuck right off but would should I consider it?

(they are 8&10 btw, last year he came to see them for an hour in the morning before we went to my mums, and I have no problem with him doing that again)

DP would love to have his kids at Xmas, their Mother won't allow it - emotionally blackmails them about how she will be alone at Xmas after all she has done for them all year etc.

DP won't insist as he knows how difficult this would make it for kids, now they are old enough kids have voted with their feet and both older ones have chosen to work their p/t jobs in a restaurant on Xmas day this year and last year - well done Mum, spoilt everyone's Xmas with your pure selfishness.

He has left it too late for this year and thats that.

I am lucky in that xp has bever been bothered about having the kids for xmas and birthdays. He comes round here for a couple of hours and that's it. It's too much effort for him.

If he were to suddenly say he wanted them, my initial reaction would be to tell him to fuck off. He doesn't have regular contact with them for the rest of the year, infact contact stopped because he couldn't be arsed to do anthing with them when they did visit him and so why should he have them at xmas.

I would however ask my dc their opinion, and if they said they wanted to, then that would be fine. They wouldn't though because going to his bores them senseless.

I have seen so many 'possessions' grow into totally fucked up teenagers who end up respecting neither parent in the end.

Children are not tennis balls to be batted to and fro between warring ex partners.

If parents can't put them first at any other time of year, they should bloody well try at Christmas...no matter how much bitterness they have towards their child's Father or Mother.

I would telephone and say

Look as I see it you have left arrangements for Christmas really really late, I had made plans as not heard from you. But lets put the dc first and come up with a comprimise plan so that christmas is great for everyone - what do you suggest as a comprimise plan Mr ex?

That way you are not blocking him out, you are not telling him what to do and you are including everyone, therefore it will hopefully not get his back up, let him think about a solution to comprimise and hopefully you will all get a good christmas

It's far too late for him to raise this now. Say you're going to your mum's and does he want to pop round on Xmas morning / bring presents Xmas Eve or whatever you would prefer? Especially as it falls on one of your weekends he should have said weeks ago if he wanted to do something different.

I agree with Leetletown and SGB. If he was really that interested in giving the children a great Christmas then he'd have raised this long before now. And if he was happy with just an hour on Christmas morning, then what sort of Christmas would he be giving them?

I think being obstructive to contact, and refusing to "allow" children to be with their NRP over Christmas is a whole different ball game to people like workshy. I am in a similar position, except xh hasn't asked to have dd over Christmas - we've sorted out that he will come here on Christmas Day.

Had he asked for Christmas Eve I would have been extremely reluctant to agree. I bust a gut all year doing different jobs, doing all the donkey work, running around to activities, all the school runs and arranging childcare - as well as paying for the whole lot with no child support forthcoming, and I am not giving up what is one of the best nights/days of the year to someone who doesn't make his dd a priority, and didn't even buy her or dsd a present last year.

That's not about using dd as a pawn, or not putting her first - it's the exact opposite. I want her to grow up with happy memories of Christmas, not one day coming to me and asking me why I was "fair" and let her Dad have her for Christmas Eve for it to turn out to be the one year Father Christmas didn't come. It's not happening.

If you read my post - I said that he HAS left it too late for this year - but that the OP should make arrangements for her Ex to have their DC NEXT year. And I would be saying the same thing the other way round. I ALWAYS look at situations involving my dc and their fathers as to how I would feel if the situation was reversed.

Yeah, it's SHIT if the father's haven't been involved for 6 months - but in that case, I would be telling them to go to a contact centre to re-establish contact FIRST. As I did with Ex-H BOTH times he decided he was too busy to see DS1 for 6-9 months at a time.

No, in that situation, I wouldn't be sending the Dc to spend Christmas with their father - but I would be trying to re-establish contact, and would expect that when regular contact was resumed, christmasses would then alternate.

I DON'T feel that as I do the day-to-day work that it gives me some sort of extra 'rights' over my dc - because they are not my posssessions to have 'rights' over.

And you can solve the thing of why Father Christmas 'didn't come' by doing what I did the first time DS1 spent Christmas at his dad's (his dad didn't 'do' FC then). You buy a stocking full of presents, just as you would if they were with YOU. You then place it in their room for when they get back. Voila! FC didn't forget them - he just went to ONE of their houses - with the amount of houses FC has to visit, occasionaly he puts the presents in the 'wrong' house when a child has two houses. Instant happy child.

There's ALWAYS a solution. It just involves the Resident Parent putting aside THEIR feelings to do what is best for their dc. And in the end, if their father IS a total knob-jockey, they'll realise this for themselves. Usually somewhere between 10yo and 15yo. HTH.

Way too late. Putting the kids first would be not screwing up what plans the children are looking forward to.

He can discuss next year with you.

Out of order what two weeks before no blinking way

Tell him to get lost

I think dd would be highly suspicious of the presents left here instead of at her Dad's Huntycat. She sees all the hype over Christmas, talks to her friends at school, sees all the films where no matter what happens, the presents are there on Christmas morning as if by magic. She just wouldn't buy it. She would realise that her Dad hadn't bothered - and I'm just not going to do that to her, and the instant happy child when she returned here just wouldn't happen, she would already be let down. I know my child.

But I would definitely negotiate the whole of the rest of the holiday. Putting my feelings aside, and putting dd first, and dsd, is the reason why her Dad and dsd are spending Christmas Day here, why he will get really nice gifts from the girls, why I shall just go ahead and cater for them all, despite him not ever offering to help towards the cost.

Putting dsd first is the reason why I paid her mum's child support when I was with xh, and why I continue to financially support her now. Wanting dd here for Christmas Eve isn't done for selfish reasons, it's because I want her to have a great time and happy memories growing up. There's plenty of time for her to learn what her Dad's really like later on - and I will protect her from that as long as I can. It broke my heart last year when I found out that dsd had chosen to spend Christmas Eve with him, only to be told she wasn't getting any presents from him, and there was nothing I could do about it other than make sure she had loads from me. I told her they were from her Dad as well, but she already knew they weren't. I understand about putting my feelings aside for the children Huntycat, I have done it ever since I first became a stepmum.

So in this case, I wouldn't agree Huntycat that it's too late to change the arrangements and to negotiate for next year. I'd be sorting out something for this year that meant he saw them at some point, without upsetting the arrangements already put in place too much. I think suggesting that it can't be done this year contradicts what you say about there always being a solution.

He's left it too late. Simple as that. Christmas day with DCs and other family takes planning at the best of times and with separated parents that goes double.

He had already said he only wanted to have contact on his set days plus two weeks at summer. If he subsequently wanted to change that to "...plus alternating Christmases" then he should have said that weeks ago.

It sounds as though your mother gave you a happy life, whereas your dad gave another family a happy life. Do you think your mother should have spent her own Christmas alone whilst your dad spent Christmas with you AND with his other family? What had he done to deserve that?

Children are not replaceable - having more does not mean you don't love the ones you already have just as much as you always did, a missing child leaves a gaping hole - that cannot be filled with "another" anything. And to suggest anything elase demeans the child.

Love like families grows and expands.

Children also have a right to a relationship with their siblings.

And making your children responsible for you and your happiness is abysmal.

They should never have to worry about you as their parent being alone, that's your problem - not theirs.

"oops, well, I have made plans on the basis that christmas falls on 'my' weekend, and we've accepted an invite / kids excited...we need to plan this in more detail next year, what about you come round for an hour...have them on Boxing day..sorry i didn't realise you had done the whole churstmas decoration / santa presents thing this year as it has never been your thing.."

And avoid as much rowing about it as possible.

That sounds eminently sensible, Blu.

Yes what Blu says, except i'd leave out the bit about decorations etc as that could be perceived as having a dig.

Too late sorry, my ex hasnt mentioned Christmas to me yet, he won't speak to me, so have arranged our Christmas and if it doesn't suit then tough. He will have to fit in around the arrangements already made.

2rebecca

I do not view child support payments as money for me, as see it as money that would enable me to give my children the things they need without having to get into debt

I don't drink, smoke, go out, buy new clothes well I bought myself a new pair of jeans about 4 months ago that cost me £25 etc etc

I do pay for everything my children need plus about £300 a month in childcare fees
I have no 'emergency fund' and a steadily growing credit card balance

I earn more than my ex and he has used this and the fact that he has them alternate weekends while I work, as reasons not to pay child support. He was psychologically abusive towards me for many years and it took me a long time to break free and when I did I needed it to be as easy as possible for me to be mentally able to cope with everything as he spent 10 years telling me I was an idiot and I would be useless if it wasn't for him I was not prepared to prove him right!

when we split I could afford to manage due to tax credits -these have since been cut so now I have asked him for some financial support for our children

I have never based the decions about what is best for our children, on my personal opinions of him -these issues have nothing to do with our children, they do not know he doesn't financially support and my comment to dd about her birthday surely proves that I am putting my children's happiness before my own???

I am not saying he can't see the children -I am merely saying that I think he is a bit late in asking but should I change mine and the children's plans for christmas day at this short notice, or his he being unreasonable asking I can be a little sensitive to him as a result of our relationship so sometimes I need a prod to tell me if it is normal behaviour or not

I feel I have been painted as a member of the vicious ex-wives club by some posters and I don't see what I have done to warrant it?

(but thank you to those that have been kind and posted some good advice)

What if they stayed on saturday/sat night and came back to yours well before you need to leave for your parents? I understand that may not feel "fair" but it seems a way that your children would not feel they were choosing one parent, they would not have to miss the extended family gathering and they would get to have part of Christmas with both parents.

Main thing is that the children do not feel they have to make the decision anyway, that they feel the adults are in charge and responsible for sorting it, that both their parents if course want them but will equally be fine with dividing the time (even if they are not) and that there is no fighting over it.

I would say that it is too late for THIS year. Maybe he can see them for a bit in the morning? Before you go to your mum's? But insist on arranging Christmas well in advance next year. Oh - and go to the CSA. They don't care if you or your ex are earning more - just that he pays for his dc. You don't have to pay for the CSA yet.

Agree with Stewie, part of being a parent is bloody well looking after your kids. As far as i am concerned, if these parents loved their children they would pay towards their keep. There are some parents who support their dcs, despite the fact that that they are not allowed to see them.

If the children have said they see your house as home and they want to be at home for christamas I would say that is what should happen.