my ex has just announced he wants the kids for christams

[workshy]

my ex -who hates christmas, has never had anything to do with it and spent the last one we were together in bed, -has just messaged me to say he is assuming he is having the kids this christmas as I had them last year!!!

this is the first time he has mentioned christmas, it's my weekend to have them (mutual agreement, no court order) they are expecting to go to my parents with their cousins and are looking forward to it, he hasn't bought them any 'santa' presents

just want to tell him to fuck right off but would should I consider it?

(they are 8&10 btw, last year he came to see them for an hour in the morning before we went to my mums, and I have no problem with him doing that again)

Well given that you had already asked him about his plans for the festive season and got a load of old willy as an answer, YANBU at all to have made plans for yourself and DC. Do you think he's asking to see them just to dick you around or is he hopelessly disorganised? Either way, with an unreliable man it's actually best to get everything in writing and involve lawyers if need be, then you can make your plans accordingly.

I too agree with princess...Christmas and birthday are my days!!

I have ds every Christmas day and so far xp has him boxing day but as yet nothing has been mentioned this year....
He used to have him for a week but the last 3 years he has him just for 1 night!

If he moans that you had the kids last year then he hasn't been paying anything towards the upkeep of his kids for over a year. Sorting out how he pays rent as well as child support is his problem not yours. Your attitude towards child support does suggest that you see it as money for you that you can refuse rather than money for the kids.

I agree that this is a seperate issue from access but in general parents who sort out the financial; arrangements early and don't have constant money wrangles can then discuss access without money coming into the discussions.

Dee03, that's awful. Where's your sense of fair play?

I would agree with the PP's that I would say to him that it is too little notice and that you are happy to alternate from next year, with him having next year. IMO it would not be fair on the children to change such set in place plans so late in the day, and he is UR to expect that to happen. I can see from your most recent post why you assumed that Christmas contact arrangements had already been agreed, but clearly he didn't think that (or has changed his mind since) so I think you should make arrangements to discuss contact arrangements for special occasions after Christmas so that everyone knows what the arrangements are in the future.

Yes, people's circumstances are so different: it is rarely as simple as taking turns apiece, and sometimes I think posters say they are basing their idea of 'fairness' on what is right for the children, but without having the smallest clue of what that situation actually entails.

It's not 'fair' or right that children get a shitty Christmas Day just because a dad who generally can't be arsed is flexing his entitlement muscle.

Sapphire

I didn't.

DV is the obvious exception ((d)H1 was a violent alcoholic so I am with you on this one).

I'm talking about the posts up thread where the responses are that because one parent was crap at adult things (being a good partner, doing the school runs in all weathers, paying maintenance, organising and planning etc) that this should be reflected in how much their own children get to see them, and in the messages the children are given about that parent.

Agree with solidgold about him having only himself to blame for being evasive about holiday plans. Even in public sector jobs where you cover over xmas the holiday rota is usually sorted out well in advance so there is no reason for him to be raising this at the last minute, particularly if you have never discussed him having the kids alternate xmases.
I would say no not this year and that next year you will expect him to discuss the xmas holidays with you in advance including which holiday days he has the kids. If you go through the CSA he pays less if he has the kids for more nights so that may make him more willing to pull his weight.

He's never once asked to have our ds on Xmas day..... He in an abusive emotional controller who only had ds 4 nights a month...he's not interested in any aspect of ds life ie- school, sports days, plays etc....there is 8 years of back history which I wont bore you all with but let's just say out ds is way down the pecking order in xp life! ( and our ds knows this)...he's 9 btw

Failure to pay any maintenance should not be put in the same category as being ropey when it comes to making doctor's appointments and remembering to wash their PE kit though.

DO tell him to feck off. He's left it a bit bloody late. If he really wanted to swap weekends, he'd have mentioned it before now. Selfish git is just trying to wind you up.

Oh, and when it comes to the "messages" a child receives about their father, what kind of message is he sending to them if he would rather watch them go without, or see their mother struggle to make ends meet, than actually contribute towards the cost of their upbringing?

Amazing how these deadbeat dads who pay nothing and do nothing all year of any parental responsibility come out of the woodwork for Christmas isn't it!
Apparently they can make the effort for just one day

Christmas day this year is on 'my' weekend. Doesn't change the fact that it is my Ex-H's Christmas. We just arranged together about a month ago how we were going to split the rest of the Christmas Holidays.

Thanks to MJ, I won't repeat what I said on the other thread,what I said on there still stands - however, in THIS case - I would say, tell your Ex that he has left it too late for Christmas this year - but that he is welcome to have the dc NEXT Christmas - and stick to it.

It IS much too little notice, when we are only a week away from Christmas, to suddenly decide that he wants the dc. Bit my Ex-H and my Ex-P know that the 'odd' numbered Christmasses are 'their' Christmas, the 'even' numbered Christmasses are mine.

But you really do need to sort out either alternate Christmasses or splitting Christmas day fairly each year, for you dc's sake.

Children AREN'T pay-per-view. Maintenance is a TOTALLY separate issue to fair access. If I took that stance, DS1 would never see his dad, my Ex-H, again, after Christmas, when my maintenance from him goes down from £1.36 a week to nothing. That's NOT going to happen - DS1 needs to see his dad.

And for those of you who are saying that you do the hard work, so they can fuck off - JUST HOW SELFISH CAN YOU BE? It's NOT your ex that you are punishing by doing that - IT'S YOUR CHILDREN!.

Again - if I took that stance - then DS2 and DS3 wouldn't see their dad, my Ex-P. That's NOT going to happen - DS2 and DS3 need to see their dad.

I do all the school runs, all the night feeds, all the potty training, paying for all the school trips, all the clothes, blah blah blah. Doesn't mean that the dc are my possessions. Maintenance has no bearing on access - even in the family courts.

If your ex has unsupervised contact - then he is safe to have them for Christmas too. My Ex-H was violent towards me - but NOT towards my DS1.

You can't stop a child from seeing their father because he has hit YOU - only if he has been violent towards the CHILD. If he hasn't been violent towards the child, then you have to swallow your feelings, and share high days and holidays, if they have unsupervised access.

The ONLY codicil in that, IMO, is if the Ex-partner/Ex-Husband has been violent, neglectful or abusive TOWARDS THE CHILD. Anything else is tough shit for the resident parent - they need to swallow their feelings for the sake of their child building a relationship with their father's.

And, like I say - I have been there, with a violent, emotionally and financially abusive Ex-H. BUT he is a good dad NOW. And he never hurt or abused DS1.

And as for public sector workers getting their rota's far in advance - HA! Ex-P works for the NHS. He got the times for his Christmas day shift YESTERDAY.

And for those of you who are saying that you do the hard work, so they can fuck off - JUST HOW SELFISH CAN YOU BE? It's NOT your ex that you are punishing by doing that - IT'S YOUR CHILDREN!.

Um, no, I'm not punishing my children in the slightest by not sending them to their dad's for Christmas. I might seem like a grumpy cow on here but I'm really quite pleasant in real life, and my children and I actually enjoy spending Christmas together. I wouldn't stop them going to their dad's at any other time for their bi-monthly visit. But Christmas? No. Fuck off.

Agree again princess
If my ds asked to spend Christmas day with his dad and his dad agreed then I wouldnt have a problem with it but I know in reality that would never happen.. My ds wants to be here with me and my other 2 ds . Plus his xbox Is here

Hunty I think you portray this issue in far too black and white terms. Yes, alternate/split Christmases may appropriate in many cases, but it is not always appropriate or fair on the children. I agree with the comment up thread that making a child have a crap Christmas just to satisfy some externally decided measure of "fairness" is not in the best interests of the child any more than forbidding a child to see their other parent at Christmas is. Alternate Christmases would not be fair or appropriate in the case of my children, and if their Dad wanted to have them I would say no. Given that he hasn't seen them for six months (and similarly to the OP, made every effort to avoid Christmas when we were together), I think that is the most appropriate answer.

Do you think your XH might want the DCs for Christmas so that we can offer you the NYE weekend instead, and be free to party without having to pay a babysitter?

I think there is an assumption that these dads want to see their children whereas most only appear at Christmas.

If I were in OPs position I would just say to the ex
"I'm sorry but I have already made arrangements for Xmas Day. As nothing had been mentioned about making a change from last year's arrangement of you coming here for presents before we go to my mums, I took this to mean that was still the plan. You are still welcome to come on Xmas Day morning, and then even have DCs on Boxing Day, but unfortunately, we are going to my mum's for Xmas lunch onwards"
Xmas doesn't sneak up on anyone, it's the same date every year, so leaving it until the week before to want to spend it with the DCs is a cop out. It's not your fault is isn't organised. And with the arrangement above, you are also not stopping him having contact with the DCs on Xmas Day or even over the Xmas period

I think yab be u tbh. You because you just went ahead and made plans for Christmas without even consulting their Dad and him because he has left it so late to mention it.

I think some of the attitudes on here stink. As a child I never spent xmas with my Dad. I never asked because not seeing him was normal to me and I had many happy xmas' with my Mum. As an adult however I question it a lot and feel very cross and upset about it. My Dad remarried and had happy xmas' with his new family and I could have shared some of those special memories but because it didn't occur to me to ASK because I was just a child no one saw fit to let me go. I'm sure I seemed happy enough with Mum because I was but that doesn't mean I shouldn't have been encouraged to go! I don't see my Dad now and have had a very turbulent relationship with my Mum because of the issues relating to contact or lack thereof with my Dad when I was small.

Times have moved o from when I was child and there is all sorts of research to show that children fare best with both parents playing an active role in their lives. Princess your attitude is disgusting - you seem to view being a parent as such a huge chore and hogging all the best occasions as your reward for doing those chores - I am shocked and hope that one day you can take a step back and see the bigger oicture for the sake of your kids.

OP I think as suggested a compromise this year of xmas morning with him and the rest of the day with you is fair and perhaps agree on a longer term plan for future Xmas' that works for everyone, especially the kids

thepeoplesprincess who were you previously? I feel I 'know' you, just not in this name iykwim??!

Actually, zest, being a single mother when your ex was a complete twat is often very hard work - not that anyone would wish they hadn't had their children, just that it is very, very hard work when you have to take full responsibility for the children, work hard, do all of the housework and childcare and face financial worries on your own.

It sounds as though your mother gave you a happy life, whereas your dad gave another family a happy life. Do you think your mother should have spent her own Christmas alone whilst your dad spent Christmas with you AND with his other family? What had he done to deserve that?

It's all very well when people say 'it's the for the children' - why do people think that the children would prefer to go to their dad's home for Christmas when their dad clearly isn't that bothered about them?

Imperial fwiw I have been a single parent (Now remarried) so I know exactly how challenging it is but for me the rewards far outweighed the challenges without a shadow of a doubt and in no way at all would I say that I ought to be rewarded by having all the special times.

I am not going to delve into my family background here but my Mum did end up having a new relationship too and having more children and in any case she wouldn't have been alone becaus she had other family and friends beside me!!!

I have shared special occasions with my ex from day 1 and yes 1 xmas I was alone. TOTALLY alone by choice because I was so upset I didn't want to be around anyone else but my son deserves to have happy memories with both his Dad and paternal family as well as me so I sucked it up and guess what? The world didn't end!!

Of course it is about the children. When you become a parent you accept that while they are young their needs will come before yours.

I have been there and done it so I am speaking from experience as a child in this situation and as an adult having a child in this situation. Your attiudes will bite you on the arse one day and your children will look back as adults and question it. I just hope you have your answers ready!