To think that being Tory doesn't make you thick?

[RainbowSheep]

Ok, my family are all very liberal (I mean my parents, aunts & uncles, who incidently have all had lots of money & opportunities throughout their lives). Their parents (who were poor working class) were more conservative as are me and my brother, who are both pretty poor. We recently had a family get together where I was told by my uncle (university lecturer) that Tories were unitelligent and I was beginning to sound like an idiot for having conservative views... I don't think I am particularly right wing.

If you believe in being able to better yourself with equal opportunity no matter what background - is that thick?

I really am sorry to hear that yellow rain coat. Depression is genuinely hideous, and please believe me when I say that I have very close experience of this illness, having suffered myself badly during university ( I am now on a good medication that works well for me). I nearly left university but knew i had to keep going. I nearly gave up looking for a job in london after a year of temping/unemployment (I didn't ask for help from my parents). I finally landed a temping job in a large private company filing paperwork. I pushed and pushed for a role on the trading floor and have now had a successful and happy 3 years there. I don't think you need to accept you will work part time forever. (Of course I don't know your personality disorder). It seems defeatist to me.

Only you can make yourself feel guilty not other people. Concentrate on being well and other things will follow. Of course I know other people are certainly not as fortunate as me but I don't believe we can live in a truly equal society. Surely that is equivalent to communism?

I don't really want to dwell on my personal problems, but I don't think that a few years of depression is the same as a personality disorder, especially when you have a completely unsupportive family behind you.

What do you expect people who can barely get out of bed to do? Go to work on the trading floor? Please. Wake up. Some people actually can't do it.

Other people can't make you feel guilty, but they seem to do a damn good job of trying.

Like I said, someone needs to be the cleaner. All we want is a fair chance to not have a completely shit life.

But Glitters - in order for your parents to be able to DO that - they had to have an inherent level of intelligence. Not everybody will HAVE that level of intelligence that enables them to do that. What happens to THEM? What happens to people that GENUINELY aren't intelligent enough to go to University, and could work JUST at hard at school as your parents did, put in just as many hours of school work and revision, and be rewarded with a 'G' grade GCSE? How are THEY meant to improve their life with drive and ambition?

No amount of drive and ambition can make up for not being intelligent enough to succeed academically. Why do Tories seem able to ignore that very simple, basic fact that not everyone is born with the same level of intelligence?

And what about the fact that there are plenty of teenagers that leave Secondary school functionally illiterate. That isn't necessarily down to lack of drive or ambition - it is down to them being FAILED by the education system. Can someone who is functionally illiterate better themselves with hard work, or are they destined to either be unemployed and unemployable?

allthatglittersisnot gold

sorry if my sob story offended you .But its not sob story it is pure and simple facts and anyone knows me rl knows infact i do tend to have a can do attitude to life

but some things no matter what you can not over come , ds3 disablites no matter what will never go away neither will mine

Actually TheHumancatapult I'm afraid I didn't read your thread, or don't recall it, I was reading the first few pages of this thread earlier in the day and wanted to post later. I've personally never wanted children, so you are right catapult I could not understand ds3 disabilities and how that affects you. I am not a heartless stone and I imagine you might even like me if we met!

It's interesting Huntycat mention being failed by the education system, my dad went to one of the worst comps in the country (don't know if it still is) and actually ended up teaching the rest of his class A-level maths. He had his own drive to succeed in that respect.

We could argue absolutely all day about every tiny point of liberalism vs capitalism. Unfortunately (or not) I have been brought up in a Tory household and will continue to be a conservative myself. It's just what I inherently feel is right.

On a final note (sorry) Hunty my brother actually didn't want to go to university, he wanted to do an apprenticeship, maybe something less intelligent people as you put it, Hunty, might do?! Labour cut a lot of these in their rule, and unfortunately he couldn't find one for love or money.

As they say if you tell a goldfish to climb a tree, it too will feel stupid when it fails.

Actually claig, I don't despise any people, whatever their circumstances. Which is what sets me apart from tories who despise single parents and people who are poor just for starters.........I said that I despise the DM as a publication.

I'm getting sick of tories on here trying to obscure what this debate is about.

It comes down to the point that the Tories are gunning for the most vulnerable in our society.

Never mind Hitler, never mind sodding Pol Pot or the intelligensia!

And that people who find what they are doing acceptable have lack of emapthy and questionable moral compass.

Actually perceptionreality, this thread is about

'To think that being Tory doesn't make you thick'

So why don't you stop getting sick abiut Tories on here and leave your patronising views about their "lack of emapthy and questionable moral compass" out of it?

perceptionreality, you are the one who needs to try and develop more empathy - empathy for Tories . You should try to develop the type of empathy, tolerance and understanding that does not see Tories as having a 'questionable moral compass' and the Daily Mail, read by millions, as being 'vile'.

Fascinating thread!

I never expected to see how strongly the right-wingers come across as so much more tolerant. And - in this thread - thoughtful.

Edith
I think, as with everything, there is good and bad on both sides. I come from a long line of Tories, I'm very left wing. My grandmother's views are abhorrent. My brother, however is really very reasonable and is against some of the cuts. It's when people toe the party line without thought that it gets frustrating.

I think I must be reading a different thread, then

I doubt it.

The name-calling and aggressive posts on this thread all seem to come from one "side".

And the lack of empathy and the 'I'm alright Jack' stuff is evidently coming from the other.

Dawnedonher: I do agree with your post. I wonder what the thread would have been like if your approach (as opposed to stereotyped insults) was more widespread?

Personally I think core Tory voter's are those whom believe that the state should do the bare minimum. That people should help themselves & their own first, then only after that if they cannot, the state steps in.

That people who have done the right thing, worked hard, saved money and made their own luck should be entitled to keep the fruits of their labour. For some lucky few this is millions of pounds. For the vast majority of us (me included) it's a little bit of savings, a house (eventually) and hopefully a reasonably new car.

A typical Tory voter believes that hard work should be rewarded. And that the state must also live within its means.

The typical Tory hater is a person who believes the state should be responsible for providing everything they cannot. The rich should be relentlessly taxed to pay for all the things they feel is a good cause. But crucially without taking the time nor effort to understand if said cause is affordable. Affordability isn't something your Tory hater needs to think about. That's just some Tory bullshit designed to keep the poor, poor.

If that makes a Tory voter thick, then I'm thick.

I think the different policy in respect of certain issues is clear. But that is can be attributed to lack of empathy has not been well argued. It is possible to feel a great deal of empathy, but have widely differing views on what to do to alleviate the situation.

Attributing an emotional position for inadequate reasons is a prime example of poor reasoning.

"It comes down to the point that the Tories are gunning for the most vulnerable in our society."

This thread is getting me quite cross.
Tories are not gunning for the most vulnerable in our society. Tories are a cross section of society. There are some nice, some nasty; some rich, some poor; etc.
Nice Tories fully support helping those that cannot help themselves but are fed up of helping those who are just swinging the lead. It was a well-known trick of the SpinMeisters to recategorise the 'unemployed' as 'unemployable because signed off sick'. There were plenty of stories of so-called sick being caught on camera playing football or fixing rooves. Are you really surprised that someone is looking a bit closer as what is defined as sick?
We are short of money in this country to support the most vulnerable because Labour frittered it away on wasters. Labour spent money we didn't have like they always do and have left the Tories to clean up the mess like they always do. And you want to blame the Tories? Words fail me.

How can someone pay 100k in tax per year (as mentioned earlier in thread) yet still get called thick, tory scum and cuntish?

Having money doesn't make you clever!

But it makes you contribute more to society financially

I'm saying this as someone who has very little money BTW