To think that being Tory doesn't make you thick?

[RainbowSheep]

Ok, my family are all very liberal (I mean my parents, aunts & uncles, who incidently have all had lots of money & opportunities throughout their lives). Their parents (who were poor working class) were more conservative as are me and my brother, who are both pretty poor. We recently had a family get together where I was told by my uncle (university lecturer) that Tories were unitelligent and I was beginning to sound like an idiot for having conservative views... I don't think I am particularly right wing.

Thick as in absolutely lacking in intelligent perspectives into how society works. Yes.

Thick as in don't know how to fuck the poor over and feather their own nests. No.

Bibbo is exactly right. The Tories I know all think that being on benefits is the same thing as being a 'scroat' (my mother's word ) and generally people on benefits are always to blame for their own misfortune, blah blah blah. Total lack of empathy. Obviously I can't say all Tories are like this but those I know among family and friends (including a Tory MP) certainly are.

www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/jun/04/george-osborne-plan-not-working I don't think most of these leading economists are "very, very stupid"

I'm afraid the whole tone of scaevola's posts illustrates the points made by bibbo for me. There's something brisk, cold and aloof about them.

AKissIsNotAContract - 'Not thick but quite unusual for someone without much money to be a Tory.'

Not unusual where I live - very rural, poor but also passionately Tory.
Also when I lived in the inner city there were lots of Conservative voting immigrants who were not well off themselves but might have been once, or expected their children to be one day. I think there are certain demographic groups where it is not uncommon.

But what would you call yourself if the majority of your views are conservative, except for views on same sex marriage, which I think is great, and dislike globalisation?

If its any help, I have known/know quite a few university lecturers with quite comfortable lifestyles but vote LibDem and wear their champagne socialist lifestyle on their sleeve.

I often find they have a massive sense of self entitlement, based on the fact that they have a degree/PhD and believe that they should be paid much more than other people because of it. They especially resent Tory voters who have more money than they do but who don't have a degree. They perceive them as UNDESERVINGLY rich because they are unintelligent - in other words because they dont have a degree.

It really is that basic. Politics of envy.

We are very poor, DH is at uni as a mature student and I run m own small business. We don't own our own home and have no chance of getting a mortgage at the moment. However, we are very well supported by the tory government, are extremely grateful.

Greedy people can be rich or poor, well educated or not, I know Tories from right across the spectrum.

In regards to their intelligence, they might be able to do their sums, but they tend to be lacking in wisdom from my experience.

Yes, lack of empathy.

Even on this thread

The mind numbingly stupid idea that just because 'they' have 'pulled themselves up by their bootstraps against all idds' that others are somehow deficient by not being able to.

The whole right wing ethos functions by fucking over the poor in every orifice, with every legislation that benefits big business and tax avoiders, and by increasing the gap between rich and poor.

All the while saying that EVERYONE has the same opportunity, that we all have the same ability and opportunity in this great capitalist behemoth.

Fuck that.

Fuck them.

I get really fucking angry at the lecturers at DH's uni who say that the students should be joining teh protests about tuition fees, while they themselves command such high salaries, if it bothers you so much take a fucking pay cut! We are getting into debt due to uni fees and most days DH gets lessons cut short, I said he should make a diary and ask for a discount at the end of the year..

The term 'Champagne Socialist' is aimed at hypocrites rather than people with money who hold socialist views.

My favourite Tory, who has tons of empathy for the less well off, describes himself as 'socialist by nature rather than by conviction'.

LaurieFairyCake - can you explain further, do rich people not have pretty high taxation? Do state schools not provide the same education for every pupil (I don't have personal experiece with private school)?

Rainbow: your last post is very centred on what your life is like under the Tories. I think this is what I don't like about Tories - the 'as long as I'm alright I don't care about others' attitude.

If I just look at myself, life for me is no different under this government than it was under Labour. I don't like what the Tories are doing to those less well off than myself though. I guess that makes me a champagne socialist by your standards.

Not thick, necessarily, but selfish.

Most working class people I know are actually consevative, my mum who is a staunch middle class liberal says it's because the tory's prey on the thick & weak minded... Patrionising much?!

Tory papers do prey on the thick and weak minded...

No, rich people do not have pretty high taxation. Not compared to others in Europe or more importantly the poorer in this country who pay relatively more in taxation.

And no, if your house is damp and you have no desk to study at and your family spends the money on fags and booze and you go hungry, and your school is in special measures or failing, and education is neither valued nor supported in a household dependent on proceeds of crime or benefits, you DO NOT have the same education as others more fortunate

AKissIsNotAContract - Yes but what I mean is that we are at the bottom of the heap financially

Laurie, that's pretty much what I was about to say... I also did the bootstrap thing but that doesn't mean that I expect everyone else has the same opportunities. Especially not now. I think it was easier to "make something of yourself" if you started with nothing when I was younger than it is now.

Not that I've done that well - just better than expected given my background.

I realise the 'relative' taxation thing is a finely nuanced argument but the working poor (those just above the benefits threshold) are really fucked by taxation.

On account of still having to eat and clothe themselves.

Rainbow, you can't really believe that all state schools provide the same standard of education?

Both sets of Grandparents were working class northerners who lived through horrendous poverty.

Two were lifelong Labour voters; two were lifelong Conservative voters.

It's just possible that working class people still have different opinions from one another...

LaurieFairyCake - Our house (which we get housing benefit for) is damp, we contantly have to clean mold from out bathroom and youngest DC's bedroom, we don't go hungry as we are well supported by the government via tax credits. If we wanted a desk we could get one for £10 from ebay. We don't spend all our money on alcohol & cigarettes & we aren't criminals

I never understand why people describe 'champagne socialists' as though it's a negative thing. Why is it bad for the wealthy to care about the less well off in society?

Becauses Bolinger Socialists do things like - oh that nice Diane Abbott - espouse comprehensives and then send their offspring to private schools - just like that nice Mr Blair. Because as we all know - the state system is ok for the rank and file but not for someone like them. Mr Blairs wife needed a particular faith school and Ms Abbott - SN was her excuse. Still -ther rest of us can put our SN kids into the state system that clearly isnt good enough for some.

JingleBelleDameSansMerci - Our best local state schools (oftsed outstanding) are in the poorest areas.