To think that being Tory doesn't make you thick?

[RainbowSheep]

Ok, my family are all very liberal (I mean my parents, aunts & uncles, who incidently have all had lots of money & opportunities throughout their lives). Their parents (who were poor working class) were more conservative as are me and my brother, who are both pretty poor. We recently had a family get together where I was told by my uncle (university lecturer) that Tories were unitelligent and I was beginning to sound like an idiot for having conservative views... I don't think I am particularly right wing.

"Welfare should be dependant on NEED, NOT 'budgetary constraints'"

But there isn't an unlimited money pot! Unless like I said you think all the money should be divvied out equally, but even that would never be equal.

As I said I don't think this government is drawing the line in the right place re disabilities but it needs to be drawn somewhere.

Harry Santa Goldfish a bit harsh your comment but you do have a point put calling someone thick when there intitled to an opinion is uncalled for.

Saying welfare should not be budgetry dependant is staggeringly naive.

Though it is true no one needs to have 5, 6, 7 kids all supported by the taxpayer.

Harry Santa Goldfish a bit harsh your comment but you do have a point put calling someone thick when there intitled to an opinion is uncalled for

But calling people evil is okay?

i dident call anyone evil on here maybe you should read the thread back.

I believe the shoe lady once said her party was seen as the evil party. She was right. Dave's new attitude to gay rights has helped greatly to combat some of that, but whether it's genuine throughout the party or a leader's repositioning of image we still can't tell.

Tiggy did, Knockkneed. Perhaps it is you who should read back?

The cuts I am talking about have been passed by the House of Lords, and/or are in the process of being passed right now. The 50% cut in the money paid to severely disabled dc, as an element of Child Tax Credits - that £1,300 a year will make a HUGE difference to someone unable to work due to their caring responsibilities. It may not SEEM like much, a measly £25 a week - but that is HALF of the Child Tax Credits that are paid in recognotion of the fact that their child has a disability that creates extra costs, for things like therapy equipment that is often no longer provided on the NHS.

Is it fair that only the richest parents with disabled dc can afford to pay for essential therapy items for their children? My DS2 needs specially made shoes due to his disability. They cost £120 a pair. Until 2 years ago, they were provided on the NHS. Now anyone whose child NEEDS them has to pay for them out of what little money they have.

My friend's dc needs hydrotherapy as it is the only way he can get any exercise, due to his disability, he needs to be in water to support his body weight before he can do any exercises. The local hydrotherapy pool has closed down. The nearest one is over 30 miles away. My friend has to pay the train fares to get her son there. She uses this additional top-up on her Child Tax Credits to pay for this.

£25 to most people is the difference between a few visits to Costa in a week. To people caring for a child with disabilities, it is the difference between buying essential equipment for their child, it is the difference between being able to afford the travelling costs to an essential therapy appointment.

tiggy - Teresa May said the tories were seen as the nasty party not the evil party!

all i said was the tories dont get real people and the cabins full of millionaires and you come barging in with your comment about being thick when im intitled to my opinion.harry santa goldfish. DID you get out of the wrong side of the bed this morning maybe you should joke on your goldfish.

choke on your gold fish

But the Labour cabinet was also full of millionaires. That's the thick bit!

Harry
The cuts to care services. I've just lost my (much needed) two hours a week respite care, due to cuts. If you are a disabled person you cannot also be a carer, which you can now, but not when the changes happen. A loss of some £200.00 per month for some families. The PiP is as yet undecided.
Families with disabled members all over the country are losing their care packages. The list is endless.
I gather from your posts that you read the papers or have access to the news in some format or another. Surely you don't need somebody to explain this?

Harry - But the people who have ALREADY got 5/6/7 dc will be 'protected' by transitional protection, at least at first. The disabled and those caring for them will be affected straight away.

Londoneone, Harry - so you DON'T think that Welfare should be dependant on need, then? Does that mean that if there is enough money in the pot to support 200 people with disabilities, but there are 2000 people with disabilities that NEED support, 1,800 of them will just have to, I don't know, disappear? While at the same time MP's of ALL colours are fighting to have thier second homes allowance reinstated. While God knows how much is wasted on middle-management in public sector industries? Because there isn't enough money in the pot for all 2,000 that need it, 1,800 of them will have to put up with getting less, or no extra support, even though they are still in just as much need?

Or should it be accepted that there WILL be x number in need, and all x must be supported, rather than x-y%? And that cutting support to all of them DOESN'T mean that they are still being supported appropriately, just that you are making a 'show' of supporting those in NEED whilst actually NOT supporting them in reality.

The people I find difficult to take seriously are those who bask in the reflected "glory" of other people's achievements

and use those in an attempt to tell other people that all they have to do is...

"get on your bike to find a job"

"pull yourself up by the bootstraps"

"simply work hard and you will make your own luck"

and other "truisms"

tories all they do is attack the people who most need it and if you have money its ok so you can pay for it put some low buget familys go out to work and they need the much needed bennifits what they are taking away they are living in a different world not everyone are scroungers people are going out and trying to get jobs do you think all people are waiting for a handout somepeople cant help the situation there in and do you think its fair a cancer patient should have there benifits checked is disgusting thinking all people are scroungers and arnt trying to help themselfs is the thick bit

I love being a Tory

im taking back your monday and making it to a no tories aloud

No it isn't always possible for people to work hard and pull themselves up. My DS1 has ASD and learning difficulties and will probably never earn more than the minimum wage - that's if he can even get a job. I'm sure he would work hard if he could, although he doesn't always understand the concept.

But then if the country has run out of money, he can starve of course. Or we as his parents will be responsible for him until we die. Oh, DH and I had OK jobs once, but then we both became ill. DH now can't work and I continue to drag myself in each day. For how much longer I don't know.

You see, dear Tories, one day your nice world might come crashing down like ours has. Your child is diagnosed with a disability. You lose your job. You lose your health. You lose your sanity through extreme stress. Your partner is disabled in a car accident...

Oh, but ther isn't enough money...

The Daily Mail is a vile publication - my dislike of it has nothing to do with whether it's for the people or not. It inspires bigotry in others. That, I despise.

I also think it's a bit insulting to talk about society in general as being proles, incapable of intelligent thought but that they control the outcome of who's in power because hardly anyone else thinks differently. There are many people who think about what they are reading and who examine their own prejudices.

The sad thing is, I'm probably listed as one of those Daily Mail readers. The problem is, the statistics assume that we all read the Mail because we agree with it.

I reckon a lot of us actually read it because we need to know what the enemy is up to...

Orwell uses teh term proles to refer to the ordinary people who are not part of Big Brother's Inner party. It is the Inner Party and the intelligentsia who look down on the proles and the newspapers they choose to read such as the Sun or the Daily Mail, which they think are "vile".

I think that Sun amd Mail readers are intelligent and make wise voting choices. I don't think that their millions of readers are prejudiced and are bigots and unlike you, I don't despise them.

'The problem is, the statistics assume that we all read the Mail because we agree with it.'

I don't agree with all of it either. I doubt anyone does.

My parents grew up incredibly poor (my mum especially), both in council houses, one with an alcoholic father who passed away prematurely. Both in the North, both with no money for anything other than being alive.

They grafted and grafted, with my dad being the first person in our family to go to university, off his own back. No one pushed any drive or ambition onto them, they made it themselves. Living in unfurnished housing, eating beans, with my mother supporting my father through his degree.

Fast forward 30 years and they are very comfortable and both staunch tories. They saved for rainy days, cut back on cars, luxuries and holidays in order for my brother and I to live in a wonderful house, go to private school and help us buy flats now we are older. If they are able to pull themselves out of genuine poverty I don't have any sympathy for people who don't push themselves or make sacrifices. I also don't believe that their hard work and wealth should be redistributed to make a "fairer" society. They blinking well worked for it and deserve all they have. Of course they also give to charity and are regular donators to amnesty international. They are not cruel or unkind, and certainly not thick. they have little patience for sob stories.

If this is what is means to be a "tory" and have a tory attitude then I am proud to call myself one too and proud of my fantastic family.

The problem is, allthatglitters, is that not everyone can do that. Some people have to live in poverty: that is capitalism. It's not a case of "if you work hard enough, you can get this and if you don't have it, it's because you're lazy". There simply aren't enough uni places and decent jobs: someone has to be a cleaner.

I don't buy this "sob story" stuff either. I think it's incredibly harsh to talk about people having "sob stories". I have depression and a personality disorder. I work really hard to get over these: it takes all my strength to get into work most days. The NHS can do nothing to help me, they just don't have the resources. Despite having gone to a good university, I probably have to accept that I'll be working part time my whole life and therefore will probably always be skint.

Is that a sob story? Should I just get up and go and make something of myself? Do what exactly?

I hate that people make me feel guilty for being ill. Your parents are hard-working, but also phenomenally lucky that neither of them are ill/disabled.