To think that being Tory doesn't make you thick?

[RainbowSheep]

Ok, my family are all very liberal (I mean my parents, aunts & uncles, who incidently have all had lots of money & opportunities throughout their lives). Their parents (who were poor working class) were more conservative as are me and my brother, who are both pretty poor. We recently had a family get together where I was told by my uncle (university lecturer) that Tories were unitelligent and I was beginning to sound like an idiot for having conservative views... I don't think I am particularly right wing.

But relying on your family isn't self reliance! I don't know how anyone can believe that.

It's all very well and good if your family are both rich and generous, but what if your parents are skint and or wankers?

It's not fair that people are coming from such vastly different places. We miss out on so much talent, so many people could do something with their lives but they can't because they're stuck in a shit system.

londonone - but the last tory government increased the size of the state, spending more than money than it received through taxation.

the tories has no plan how to fund their speding either.

sorry - they had no real plan to fund their spending either.

they believed the economy was running v efficiently and growth would continue when what was actually happening was the ecomnoy was overheating & about to go down.

Ha ha ha at the Labour party funding their lifestyle. Meanwhile, the Tory parties shiver in their unheated box rooms, thinking of ever-more elaborate ways to punish themselves in order to save the tax payer money.

"It's all very well and good if your family are both rich and generous, but what if your parents are skint and or wankers"

As with so many other things, life isn't always fair and it's not the job of the government to try to flatten things out. You would no doubt disagree.

Tilly - like I said I don't think the tories are particularly perfect but I think Labour are worse! In fact I would rather none of the above but I have always seen that as a bit of a cop out. Like the Occupy people, lots of complaining but no real alternatives offered

Yes, I would disagree. Life isn't fair. No, it certainly isn't with the Tories in charge.

*It's all very well and good if your family are both rich and generous, but what if your parents are skint and or wankers?

It's not fair that people are coming from such vastly different places. We miss out on so much talent, so many people could do something with their lives but they can't because they're stuck in a shit system.*

See, I loathe generalisation bollocks like this.

It's far from a shit system. We have the best free at point of use health service and education. They really are superb with dedicated and highly trained staff. The opportunities education offers every child are fabulous, but it is up to the individual to grasp them.
Why shouldn't parents who have worked hard all their lives and saved, leave that to their children? There speaks nothing but the politics of envy.
If your parents are skint and wankers that doesn't stop you making something of your life. DH's parents are skint wankers and mine are wealthy and loving. Guess which one of us earns the big salary?
you you have the choice to try and overcome it or let it destroy you.
Life isn't fair. It isn't fair that some people get to look like Angelina Jolie and some get to look like wee Jimmy Kranky. It isn't fair that my MIL is a selfish, narcissistic bitch and my mother is wonderful. Whatever life throws at you you have the choice to try and overcome it or let it destroy you. Or I guess you can hate those who have more than you and seek to take from them as much as you can .

Not thick.

Evil, but not thick.

Good point Tiggy. Have you thought about a career in advocacy with those sort of skills in constructing an argument?

Londonone - whose 'job' is it, then. to ensure that those who are disadvantaged purely by dint of who they were born, if it isn't the Government's job, and it isn't anyone else's either? Is it just a case of "tough luck, sonny Jim, you were born poor, that's yer lot, mate"?

Because that just reinforces the idea that Tories are rich that want and intend to STAY rich, no matter who they have to tread on to do so. And that they are unsympathetic and uncaring towards other people who, quite often have had less advantages in life to help them along the way than they have. Be that a poor-quality education, be it unsupportive or abusive parents, be it health problems or any number of other things that create disadvantages in life.

Why SHOULDN'T the Government help to redress the negative effects of disadvantage? The ONLY reason is paucity of empathy IMO, and an "I'm all right, Jack" attitude.

Hunty.

My DH was born poor. Pretty grimly, horribly, disgustingly poor. Far poorer than you, I would absolutely guarantee it. His mother didn't care, his father ran off.

He had two choices in life, grow up and continue the pattern or use the education in the tough comprehensive he was in to better himself. He chose the latter, worked his arse off, taught himself Latin, went to Oxbridge, got a First then a PhD and now earns a six figure salary.

Hunty - I think it is the job of the individual to help themselves and it is the job of the government when someone is unable to do that for example someone with a disability or someone caring for them.

Otherwise why do we not just put all the money in a big central pot and dish it out equally. The same for heart surgeons as for those who do nothing.

As far as I can see, people who are kicking up a stink about the WAY the cuts are happening, are doing so not because they 'hate those who have more than you and seek to take from them as much as you can', but that they want to be able to continue to pay for their BASIC NEEDS and their additional costs due to any and all disabilities in their households. Nothing more. We don't expect fancy skiing holidays (though it would be nice ). We don't expect champagne on high days and holidays. We want to be able to turn the heating on in December, and to know that we will still have a roof over our heads next April.

That is about as far from the statement above as you can get, IMO. Or can you really not see that it is such simple basic needs as a roof over our heads and heat and light and food and clothing that we are worried about. Or of being treated like indentured servants, having to work for £1.88 an hour for a business with multi-million pound profits. Trapping us in a cycle where we have no chance to get out of this nightmare because we will either be doing Workfare while our disabled dc are left alone unsupervised to hurt and injure themselves, or we will have NO income, and will lose our homes, have to put our disabled dc into care, and we are unable to even buy ourselves food.

To me, these cuts represent a return to the Victorian levels of inequality.

Argh - How many times, I DON'T AGREE WITH THE CURRENT PROPOSED CUTS AFFECTING THE DISABLED AND CARERS.

Hunty, I don't know too much about these cuts you are talking about. Have they been introduced? What exactly is happening?

i think tories live in adifferent world to us theyjust dont get it and who are they to say what the country needs when they have a cabin full of millionaires.

Harry
We both have good degrees. But if something happens then something happens. It happened, we had three dcs with disabilities and then dh became ill. Somethings you can't pull yourself back from, you don't have choices that involve growing up and getting a good education. Sometimes you have the good education and then life comes and fucks you over. Sometimes life has fucked you over before you start and you don't have the werewithal to teach yourself Latin. Those people should be given the opportunities stated by Hunty. The opportunity to have a safe environment, warm and reasonably fed. This government is removing that under the banner of we're all in this together, but we're not. They're at a completely different party, the one celebrating their bonuses. They pay their heating bills without having to think about them, they go to waitrose and don't need to think about it. In the meantime they are removing the safety net for those that really need it and poisoning many into thinking that all people on benefits are scroungers.
It is scary to be a carer of disabled people now, it's scary to be disabled and it's scary if you have disabled dcs. I can guarantee that Cameron, Osborn et al are not scared about what may or may not happen next April.

well said dawn christmas is coming.

i think tories live in adifferent world to us theyjust dont get it and who are they to say what the country needs when they have a cabin full of millionaires

And some of you reckon Tories are thick!

Of course, Blair, the Milibands, Prescott, Gordy - all paupers!

Harry, yes, of course, it is obviously possible for EVERY poor person to go to university and get a well-paid job. It must be, because your DH managed it. . What about someone who was in Foster Care and attended no less than 4 different Secondary schools, in 4 different areas of the country, using 4 different exam boards, during the two years of their GCSE's. Would you say it is still possible for THEM to get a good education?

THAT is what inequality is. And Tory voters like to brush things like that under the carpet. And, of course, when you say that you would expect the Government to support the disabled and their carers, exactly HOW much thought have you given to what your own, personal classification of disabled is?

How many of you would expect a double amputee who can self-propel their wheelchair just 50 yards to be available for 35 hours a week work? In ANY job? Or someone with uncontrolled epilepsy - how many seizures a week do you think there needs to be for it to be classed as preventing that person from gaining and keeping gainful employment? One seizure a week? 14 seizures a week? Read up about the after-effects of an epileptic seizure, and then answer that question, if you do not have first-hand knowledge of it.

THAT is the issue - where the Government is drawing the line between who is the 'deserving' poor, and who is the 'undeserving' poor, i.e. the 'scroungers'.

I'm quite sure, well, after threads on here, I know, that some people see me as being a 'scrounger'. Despite the disabilities myself and two of my dc face every day. Because it is so subjective, that is where the issue is. And the ConDem Government is busy making it so that only 6% of all GENUINELY DISABLED PEOPLE get long-term support. Do only 6% of people with disabilities have disabilities that prevent them from being able to work for at least 20 hours a week? NO. It is more like 75% of people with disabilities that will be totally unable to manage to work for 20+ hours a week. Yet only 6% will be given that level of support.

If people wish to see me as a 'scrounger', then they are entitled to their opinion. Just as I am entitled to mine, and that is that EVERYONE who is in need MUST be supported, regardless of the cost. And that if there are too many people that NEED support then Taxes on those that can afford to pay MUST rise.

Welfare should be dependant on NEED, NOT 'budgetary constraints'.

Dawn, can you explain what these cuts are?

"True Tiggy." - Thank you for agreeing with me HairyStarfish

"Only someone as thick as pig shit could think someone evil for voting for a particular party." - Er, pig shit tends to be quite runny if I correctly recall my shit. Not sure what you mean at all.

"I would rather be considered evil than come across as thick..." - OK. Will do.

..."narrowminded and downright cuntish as you." - By narrowminded I assume you mean I'm not easily put off by distractions around me. Thanks! And by cuntish I take it you mean I'm hairy, warm and bring joy to others. So kind. x