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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that being Tory doesn't make you thick?

755 replies

RainbowSheep · 10/12/2011 19:28

Ok, my family are all very liberal (I mean my parents, aunts & uncles, who incidently have all had lots of money & opportunities throughout their lives). Their parents (who were poor working class) were more conservative as are me and my brother, who are both pretty poor. We recently had a family get together where I was told by my uncle (university lecturer) that Tories were unitelligent and I was beginning to sound like an idiot for having conservative views... I don't think I am particularly right wing.

OP posts:
LaurieFairyCake · 10/12/2011 21:02

Yes, rainbow - and?

Some people can't, just because you can doesn't mean everyone is the same as you.

AKissIsNotAContract · 10/12/2011 21:04

In that case I struggle to understand why you are a Tory.

I pay a lot of tax. I have a nice income and I'm happy to pay tax. I believe there are studies showing that in more equal societies where there is less gap between the rich and the poor, all members of society are happier, not just the poorer ones.

LaurieFairyCake · 10/12/2011 21:04

The 'me,me,me' ethos is the most damaging.

People who think like this lack empathy for others. There are people who are third generation benefit dependent, who live in terrible estates, who have no prospect of moving, who have never seen an adult in their family in employment.

scaevola · 10/12/2011 21:05

Two quotations attributed to Clemenceau might interest posters here:

"My son is 22 years old. If he had not become a Communist at 22, I would have disowned him. If he is still a Communist at 30, I will do it then"

"Not to be a socialist at twenty is proof of want of heart; to be one at thirty is proof of want of head".

It's not a case of brusqueness, aloofness or coldness: it's a case of looking for the right and compassionate thing to do. This is not the same as the most sentimentally or emotionally satisfying.

aubergineinautumn · 10/12/2011 21:05

Rainbow, poorer people pay proportionately more tax than rich people and get the worst of public services eg the ocean of difference between state schools in rich and poor areas.

MeltedAdventCalendarChocolates · 10/12/2011 21:05

Tory here who has been surrounded by the 'worse off in society'... unfortunately a lot (not all of course) of that is down to bad attitude and a false sense of entitlement ("I deserve a good job - not working in a cafe" 'Erm, why? You haven't worked for it and you certainly haven't a better offer. Choosing to stay on benefits will not help you there...' (!!))

Original poster
RainbowSheep · 10/12/2011 21:05

If I could afford to send my DC's to private school I absolutely would, simply because I want them to have better opportunitie sthan I did. My liberal parents could have paid for DB and I to have a good education but instead spent their money on property (now very comfortably off) and weed while DB and I left school at 16 and went off the rails, but this was fine by them as we wer fulfilling our creative potential (?!)

OP posts:
HelenBaaBaaBlackSheep · 10/12/2011 21:07

people who are rich and vote tory are not stupid...

least not in the short-term

Original poster
RainbowSheep · 10/12/2011 21:08

LaurieFairyCake - Exactly, third generation on benefits, surely they should be getting helped off of benefits rather than being kept on them for three generations, it is awful for everyone involved!

OP posts:
JingleBelleDameSansMerci · 10/12/2011 21:10

I'm with AKiss there too...

I'm a champagne socialist, I think. My view is that the more I earn, the more I can help others either by taxes, charity, directly or just by helping the economy. I'm not sure why people get so arsey with people who want to have a nice life themselves but also help others.

Original poster
RainbowSheep · 10/12/2011 21:12

My parents are die hard liberals but more selfish than most tories I know, the same goes for lots of other liberals I know. But that is just my experience.

OP posts:
fabadafabada · 10/12/2011 21:14

Not sure that a weed habit costs the same as a private education? Surely most parents would rather buy property than spend their money on private school? I don't see how that is selfish.

JingleBelleDameSansMerci · 10/12/2011 21:14

Rainbow - helped off benefits how? Where are the jobs for them? In places like Rotherham and Doncaster (for want of better examples) there are very few jobs to be had. The largest local employers are often public services and these are being targeted for cuts as we all know.

Original poster
RainbowSheep · 10/12/2011 21:15

I did the political compass and came out as left wing so perhaps I'm centre left? Confused

I will tell you what pisses me off, the Guardian and all their sanctimonious patrionising bollocks, then you look in the magazine and it's shoes for £300, Coat for £700.. whcih wine is best, the £40 red or the £27 white? Arggh!!

OP posts:
tethersjinglebellend · 10/12/2011 21:15

If anything, I've got more left wing as I've got older... Either that or everyone around me has become more right wing...

LaurieFairyCake · 10/12/2011 21:15

Yes, of course they should be helped off of benefits but that would take proper investment which needs to be raised by taking business.

There are still whole communities (mining ones) still suffering the effects of the LAST Tory government. Nearly 30 years of poverty and under investment.

Do you realise how much cheaper it is to keep people on benefits???

JingleBelleDameSansMerci · 10/12/2011 21:16

None of my business but what are you studying?

thepeoplesprincess · 10/12/2011 21:16

I abhor the Tory values of 'pulling yourself up by the bootstraps' and 'making something of yourself' and fuck everyone who doesn't. It simply isn't a logical point of view. Think about it. For every MD of Tesco or Richard Branson there needs to be another 50,000 proles to work on supermarket tills or serve food in restaurants. Everyone who makes a valid contribution to society should be valued and respected.

LaurieFairyCake · 10/12/2011 21:16

That's taxing business not taking business.

PointyLittleDonkeyEars · 10/12/2011 21:17

It would help though if the companies who employ people (and who are so beloved of our present government) would actually pay a living wage instead of relying on tax credits from the government to get people to something even approaching it.

It would help if the mouthpieces of the government didn't drip-feed the right-wing press stories about how the ill and the disabled must all be scroungers. Why can't they just admit that yes, they want to cut the benefits bill by 20% and if that means genuinely ill and disabled people lose support that's fine by them?

It would help if many of these fabulous free schools and academies weren't springing up in leafy areas where people already have choices.

It would help if any government in the UK, Tory it otherwise, would acknowledge that inequality is a huge problem - and as mentioned upthread, countries with a lower level of inequality do better.

It would help if this government would stop bleating on about the Big Society whilst cutting Council budgets and removing ring fencing for services for the most vulnerable, often leaving effective charity-run Big Society type services with no funding.

It would help if our Prime Minister, who was happy to claim benefits for his disabled son, would stop taking away that same support for other people's disabled children.

And actually, I'd be happy to pay more tax to help level things out, even though I am not on a big income. I just don't want my money to go towards the protection of the income of high earners.

I actually know a lot of Tory voters, and I like them as people. I just don't understand them as voters. I guess I'm a champagne socialist too, as long as the champagne is Cava on 50% off special offer.

JingleBelleDameSansMerci · 10/12/2011 21:19

Cheers, Pointy Wine

ScatterChristmasCheer · 10/12/2011 21:27

fabadafabada I'd say the other way, because due to circumstances beyond your control, something could happen which meant you lost that property, and ended up no better than you started with.

The education can never be taken away from your children.

inatrance · 10/12/2011 21:28

YABU. Yes it does, particularly in reference to emotional intelligence. HTH.

FairPhyllis · 10/12/2011 21:30

That whole Tory thing about picking yourself up by the bootstraps, getting on your bike, stiff upper lip etc etc - well it's easy enough to say that if you're lucky enough to be born into a caring family who have given you self-worth. The trouble with Tories is they have little sympathy for people who have had it tougher.

My dad did exactly this too - he came from the grottiest working-class part of a very grotty town, parents were semiskilled labourers who didn't support his education because they didn't really understand the system or how important it was. He dropped out of grammar school age 16, got married too young, had a baby and did a series of menial jobs until he realised that he didn't want to live like that forever. So then he did it the hard way - A Levels at night school, degree as a mature student with a family - and became a middle-class professional. And this at a time when private company graduate schemes were closed to mature graduates and he couldn't work for the government because of his family's political affiliations. He was lucky to be bright enough to do it by the route of education, but he still had to have the get-up-and-go to do it.

I think the reason champagne socialists personally bug me is because I don't feel you should try to speak for groups you are not part of. I wouldn't be comfortable with a group of white people organising on behalf of Black people, or with men presuming to organise on behalf of women because they "know what's best for them." So I think, fine, be an ally - but if it's not primarily your struggle you shouldn't try to speak for a movement. Although I am a Tory, I think it would be a healthy thing for politics in the UK if the Labour Party were to become more of a working-class driven organisation again instead of being controlled by elite people like the Milibands. And similarly I'd like to see more working-class Tories in Parliament.

I get that public sector cuts are disproportionately hurting the less well-off. I really do. But I honestly don't understand what people think the alternative is. Where do people think the money is going to come from?

MoreBeta · 10/12/2011 21:33

RainbowSheep - I came out exactly as you did on that political test. Somewhere near Ghandi as I recall. Not bad for a rabid Tory who intends to vote UKIP!

Its the North London intelligensia left wing elite that really get my goat. Living in multi million pound houses and swanning between one TV studio and another on the public purse.