AIBU to think that whatever anyone says about schools admissions should be treated with a pinch of salt unless we know about their own personal choices for their own children

[florist]

just that

The world will always be full of hypocrites so you have to take everything everone says with a pinch of salt.

But, on the other hand, YABU as suggesting that you can only have an opinion on something you have personal experience of is a bit silly. I have not bf for longer than 6m yet I think that feeding to 2+ is a really great idea. But as I chose(ish) to ff I can have no opinion on that.

See? Silly argument.

So, basically, you have to have put your money where your mouth is (so to speak) or shut the fuck up?

Yeah, I don't think people are going to do that

It is possible to make the least awful of a set of awful choices and be resentful that you had to do that and wish you had a different choice, but accept that you didn't and you just did the best with the options available to you.

But ( and sorry to bang on about my personal case) how could I put my money where my mouth is? We have grammars and high schools. No other state choices.

My only option would be to move- but we can't do that.

seeker - I'm not saying I agree with her! I'm trying to establish if this is what she is saying, and if you read my next sentence, you'll see that I say that people don't always have the luxury of the choice they would ideally like to have.

I'm not sure I understand the OP's point.

If she is saying that people shouldn't participate in school systems that they don't believe in, then that is clearly impossible. I don't send my child to a faith school, but I am still participating in a system segregated by faith.

If she is saying that if people believe that certain systems give advantage to group of children over another, and that to give your child the advantage means that your opposition to the system is not credible makes sense. It would then follow that if you send your child to a faith/grammar school or take up a private school scholarship, you are participating in creating disadvantage for somebody else by taking up a place that another child, possibly from a less advantaged home, could have received. In much the same way people can't claim to be opposed to selection by postcode and then send their child to an excellent school in an affluent area if other, undersubscribed schools in poorer areas nearby are available to them.

Peoples' choices are dictated by such a wide range of factors outside their ideological view (if any) on the structure of education in this country. I feel there is an underlying assumption in your reasoning that people choose schools in a vacuum uninfluenced by the other issues in their lives. People may live in a GS area because that is where their jobs are/ their family is not specifically because it is a GS area.

Where we live in London 3 of our 4 nearest primary schools are Christian my children are Muslim. So should we move, if so where the position will be similar in much of London, get the children to convert or possibly question why 3 out of the 4 nearest primary schools are faith based? We took the 4th option and went private. Our choices were dictated by where we live (it was close to DH's work when he was on shift work), religion and our financial means.

People can question whether or not the system as currently structured serves the best interests of all children and lets face it these children are the future of this country so we should all care about what is in their best interests even if our own position is constrained by the system which currently operates.

To me all these threads come down to people not having the courage to admit to themselves that when push comes to shove, giving the kids the best chance in life trumps dearly held principles.

Mainly because it forces them to examine those principles very critically, and that is uncomfortable.

I'm in NI and very lucky that we have an Integrated primary and comprehensive in the town. There is no way I would send my kids to segregated or academically selective schools, because both of those options go against my beliefs.

DD would probably pass the 11+, DS1 definitely would. But I remember the hideous attitude of elitism at grammar school, and the horrible time DB2 had when he failed the 11+ after DB1 and I had passed.

Am I allowed an opinion?

Whatmeworry, so should our principles supersede what is best for our children? I'm not buying that. I'd lay down my life for my children, my principles are a poor second.

When it comes to a decent education for my dc's I have no morals.

I would have thought seeing that you hve morals is an important part of your child's education.

I have plenty, but their education overrides my need to cut off my nose to spite my face.

I don't believe in faith schools but the only primary in the village is a faith school so dd goes there.

I don't believe in selective education but live in a selective area. Dd has passed the 11plus and will go to the grammar.

Whatmeworry, so should our principles supersede what is best for our children? I'm not buying that

Hell no, IMO kids trump ideology - my point was that a lot of the hand wringing I see here is where peoples strongly held principles collide with what is best for the kids.

What happens to the kids who live in selective areas who don't make the cut? Where do they go?