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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to think that whatever anyone says about schools admissions should be treated with a pinch of salt unless we know about their own personal choices for their own children

65 replies

florist · 06/12/2011 23:09

just that

OP posts:
tethersjinglebellend · 07/12/2011 00:08

What if the option you would choose for your child is unavailable to you?

Does that increase or decrease your credibility?

seeker · 07/12/2011 00:08

There are secondary moderns available - but they are just as much a part of the system as the grammar schools are. Why would I have more credibility if I hqd sent my dd to one?

tethersjinglebellend · 07/12/2011 00:09

"so are non faith school actually faith schools?"

I don't understand this- unless you mean it the other way round?

531800000008 · 07/12/2011 00:10

too deep for me, matey, too deep

Original poster
florist · 07/12/2011 00:16

seeker I see your positon then is an exception to the rule: I can oppose a particular type of school while choosing such a school for DC if I can argue that the other schools available are part of the same system that I oppose, Ingenious.
But seriously what is it you oppose about secondary moderns more than you oppose about GS that leads you to send your DC to a GS

OP posts:
tethersjinglebellend · 07/12/2011 00:22

But seeker's not arguing that the other schools available are part of the same system; she is stating a fact.

Grammar Schools and Secondary Moderns are two sides of the same coin. Admittance to either one is dependent on the outcome of the 11+ exam.

RustyBear · 07/12/2011 07:11

"What I meant by OP is that can we really treat someone who is opposed to grammar, faith, comprehensive etc schools seriously unless they declare their own choices for their DC. That is can someone opposed to say Grammar schools with a thick kid be taken seriously. Or someone who can,t get into a faith school but then want them abolished be really be given the time of day"

But those two sentences are contradictory. You talk about 'their own choices' but in both those cases, it's not the parents' choice, is it?

seeker · 07/12/2011 07:15

I feel very strongly about this- I've been accused of hypocrisy on the subject before.

The secondary transfer system in Kent is completely iniquitous. It is divisive, bad for children, bad for society and it reinforces entrenched social inequalities.

If my daughter was at a comprehensive school, she would be in the top sets. In order for her to be in the equivalent sets in Kent, she had to go to a grammar school. How would it benefit anyone if she took the test, passed and then I sent her to a high school, or she didn't take the test and went to the high school. Would either of these options give my oppossition to the sywtem more credibility?

Trills · 07/12/2011 08:35

YABU

OriginalChristmasPoster · 07/12/2011 08:44

Is this a thread about a thread?

Of course you can participate in something whilst objecting to it at the same time. If Nelson Mandela had emmigrated to a more tolerant country he wouldn't have been in the system to change it.

cory · 07/12/2011 08:51

What the OP seems to be saying is that I am entitled to voice an opinion on grammar schools because living in Hampshire my children are at a comprehensive: in other words, because I have no experience of the grammar school system. Hmm

Seeker is not entitled to an opinion because she lives in Kent and therefore is forced to put her child in either a grammar school or a secondary modern (both part of the selective system)- so she is not allowed to say that this is a bad system Confused

Where has seeker ever said that grammar schools are bad and secondary moderns are good: surely what she has always criticised is the whole divisive system of dividing children up between these two schools at a young age? Which is precisely what wouldn't happen if Kent, like Hampshire, had a comprehensive system.

mummytime · 07/12/2011 09:01

I oppose Grammar schools, the only one close to here is private and boys only, but I do know people whose kids travel a long way to the closest state ones. One of my children wouldn't get in, one might and one definitely would. However part of my opposition is that my child who wouldn't get in is online to get A* in some GCSEs eg. MAths, but struggles massively with English. A grammar would be the wrong school for that DC, but in a Grammar school area the other schools might not give that child the opportunities at their present Comp, because the top students would have been "creamed" off.
I support C of E schools, but don't send my kids to the local C of E Comp because it doesn't achieve well enough.

hackmum · 07/12/2011 13:15

Most people's views on education are shaped by their own personal experiences. The mark of an intelligent person is the ability to look at the bigger picture.

I think cory puts it rather nicely.

tethersjinglebellend · 07/12/2011 18:53

OP not been back, then?

Shame. I wanted to know if I was credible or not.

seeker · 08/12/2011 09:16

So annoying when people just bugger off. I was looking forward to a scrap. I've had a lot of practice at defending myself on this one. I'm a socialist who likes champagne too!

Hopstheduck · 08/12/2011 09:25

yabu.

There isn't always a choice over local schools, home ed might not be an option, moving might not be an option.

Hullygully · 08/12/2011 09:32

I sort of agree with the OP. I sent my dc private for the last few years of primary because they were so bored and unhappy in their state school. The area schools are all much of a muchness so no point in moving them within the state system. I felt terribly guilty and hypocritical because I am absolutely opposed to the private system. In principle.

Now I have moved so that they can go to one of the horror Kent grammars.

I need to be taken out and shot.

My only defense (and it's a poor one) is that everyone does their best for their dc to whatever extent is possible within any given system.

Should still be shot.

But the dc are flourishing and happy.

But others are not.

I am condoning the system by participating in it.

I can oppose it while using it.

aaaaaggggghhhhhhh.

Hullygully · 08/12/2011 09:33

Oh I'm just a wanker. End of.

seeker · 08/12/2011 09:41

"Now I have moved so that they can go to one of the horror Kent grammars."

Are you sure? One of the reasons the selective system survives is that "people like us" assume that their children will pass! Which to be fair they usually do. Making sure that ther aren't any places fornthe children of "people like them". But this is not always the case- as I can testify!

Hullygully · 08/12/2011 09:45

They're already there, Seeker. We had to move before the test, but we were pretty sure they'd pass.

Whatmeworry · 08/12/2011 09:50

Ah yes, the Horror Kent Grammars - every year Londoners decamp there in droves for the fiendish purpose of giving their kids a good education at state school prices.

They only do it because they are Really Evil People you know.....

Hullygully · 08/12/2011 09:51

Well.

I'll tell you what - there are loads of ASTONISHINGLY rich kids at my dc's school, and even the dcs said the other day that they should go and pay somewhere and leave the free places for those what need em.

Hullygully · 08/12/2011 09:52

And I mean proper rich. With mansions and helicopters and such.

Whatmeworry · 08/12/2011 09:59

And I mean proper rich. With mansions and helicopters and such.

Means testing for Grammar Schools. Interesting idea.....

reallytired · 08/12/2011 10:07

I think EVERYONE has a right to state their views on school admissions. Incidently I have two NT children, one at state school and one at nursery.

For example I think that kids with major special needs should ideally go to a mainstream school with specialist unit. Ie. almost a school within a school. Different schools could have different types of unit.

The level of integration with mainstream children should depend on what is best for the child. For some children complete inclusion in a mainstream class with access to specialist teachers for advice is best. Other children might need to be full time in a specialist class for their entire education. Other children might start off in a unit and work their way towards integration with mainstream.

I feel that seperate special schools often spend too much per head on facilties like ICT, admin, sport, caretaker staff and even catering! I feel that specialist units on mainstream sites would save money that could be spent on the kids education. Sometimes small size of special schools makes it impossible to offer a good range of keystage 4 courses or team sports like football.

The alternative inclusion, can work if well funded, but some children can't cope. I would be happier if challenging children had the safety net of a specialist unit where they could be transferred to quickly without having their confidence smashed.

Incidently which schools other children go to is our business. I don't want my son's education wrecked because another child can't cope and is violent.