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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to ask why the Sun and the Mail newspaper are so hated on here?

428 replies

missnamechange · 06/12/2011 11:18

I have name changed for this as i am a regular MNer and i know i really ought to know this Blush but i don't

i read the Sun every most days, i like the vacuous celeb gossip and their easy to understand way of writing (again - Blush ) and the womens section, and the problem pages

what's so bad about it?

OP posts:
NeuromanticisedVisionsofXmas · 06/12/2011 17:48

MrsWifty, you do indeed come across as an apologist. Comparing the Charlotte Church revolting countdown clock to Charlie Brooker pieces? Hmm Please!

And Jan Moir's "fair comment" ? It's only fair comment if you are a nasty, homophobic shit stirrer who argues that people die from gayness.

NinkyNonker · 06/12/2011 17:50

I know what the Mail is like cause I pick it up in waiting rooms when I need my blood pressure raised. Likewise, my mother reads it on occasion and I will read it if it is all that is available at their house. Dad reads the Telegraph and takes a loooong time reading each section...I need something to do!

marmiteandjam · 06/12/2011 17:51

What did the Sun do that was so bad regarding Hillsborough? I'm only 28 btw so it's a bit before my newspaper reading time.

NeuromanticisedVisionsofXmas · 06/12/2011 17:54

Not really an excuse for not knowing, its well established in the public conciousness, but they lied repeatedly and printed horrific things about the supporters, things like they robbed the dead and urinated on them, and that they prevented ambulances getting to the injured.
When in fact it was the police and stewards thar refused entry to the ambulances, keeping them outside while people died.

Dawndonnathatchristmasiscoming · 06/12/2011 17:56

Blamed the Liverpool fans, loudly. It was nothing to do with the fans. Somebody's put a link further back. Check it out. It was an horrific accident caused by bad policing.

keSnowBi · 06/12/2011 17:56

I must be coming across as a crazed news junkie Grin but I am finding the Leveson fascinating.

Marmite - 96 people were crushed to death at a football match. The Sun blamed fans, treated them like scum and printed a headline stating ?The Truth.
Some fans picked pockets of victims
Some fans urinated on the brave cops
Some fans beat up PC giving kiss of life.?

None of these allegations were true.

keSnowBi · 06/12/2011 18:03

...and I'm only 35. Smile

limitedperiodonly · 06/12/2011 18:13

Regarding finding things to complain about: everyone does it. The Mail encouraged people who hadn't listened to the broadcast to complain about Jonathan Ross and Russell Brand - not that I'm shedding any tears for the creepy misogynist bullies.

Charlie Brooker was so angry about the Mail's actions that he banged on and on about it and possibly still does even after encouraging people who wouldn't give the Daily Mail houseroom to complain about Jan Moir's tasteless piece on Stephen Gately.

I went off His Mischievousness, St Charles of Brooker, some time ago.

btw neuromanticisedvisionsofxmas the way to win friends and influence people is to answer an honest question kindly and in the spirit of shedding light in dark corners. Barking at them for not knowing something tends to get people's backs up.

Life is not a pub quiz run by drill sergeants.

MrsWifty · 06/12/2011 18:16

NeuromanticisedVisionsofXmas - that's fine, you're entitled to your opinion. Which is entirely my point - that people are entitled to their opinion, even if I don't agree with it (yours), or even find it distasteful (Moir's, which iirc wasn't that Gately died of gayness, but of a particular lifestyle enjoyed by young gay men, shades of offensiveness perhaps, but an important distinction).

And yes, I do think that the Charlotte Church clock was no worse than some of the stuff Charlie Brooker has said about people who make/appear on shows he happens not to like. I personally find Brooker funnier, but in no less bad taste. It's also no worse, imo, than most Ricky Gervais stuff, but he wins Baftas and Golden Globes for his jokes.

keSnowbi - I haven't been following it that closely as I would if not on maternity leave (so much for a year off! Grin ), so can't comment on evidence from members of the public. With the internet point though, I think you're right that a lot of people simply stumble across it now - but there's also a fair number of people who actively seek it out, for instance subscribers to the MailWatch or Tabloid Lies blogs.

And with the Kercher story, yes there was a lot of pre-emptive colour - but all fairly predictable, wouldn't you say? Hardly the journalistic crime of the century (although having said that, there's no way I'd pre-write a story like that for internet publication, but then I don't have the international competition the Mail does).

Nancy66 · 06/12/2011 18:16

Sidalee - why didn't the 'friend of a friend' go to the police if she was threatened?

Because it didn't happen perhaps?

NeuromanticisedVisionsofXmas · 06/12/2011 18:20

WE all know what her point was. And their were FACTUAL errors in her "op-ed", so its not all about having an opinion, is it? And not all opinions are ok to print in the paper, we know that, some are indeed illegal. So its about where the line is, between freedom of expression,and good taste and all round "not being an utter twat".
So no, I don't agree that she had a fair comment, or that it should have been printed.

TitsForBrains · 06/12/2011 18:29

Here's a blog which highlights some of the issues with all the tabloids - it makes interesting reading if you want to know how much truth or bias there is.

Tabloid Watch

MrsWifty · 06/12/2011 18:35

NeuromanticisedVisionsofXmas - who's we? I don't agree with you, and nor did the PCC, and for what it's worth nor did a fair few people on Twitter and journalism commentators. And yes, that's why I said an important distinction, because it made it the difference between being illegal and not, i.e. saying gayness killed him and saying his lifestyle, which is common amongst young gay men, contributed to his death.

To paraphrase Voltaire, I don't agree with what she said, but I will bang on and on about her right to say it.

MrsWifty · 06/12/2011 18:36

and, for that matter, for people to read what she says and even agree with her if they want to.

MrsWifty · 06/12/2011 18:37

and, of course, for you to say you vehemently disagree with her Grin.

NeuromanticisedVisionsofXmas · 06/12/2011 18:44

She assigned him a lifestyle based on little more than her own pathetic prejudices and said that it killed him. She insinuated and painted pictures that had no basis in fact, and she was roundly reviled for it. The PCC said that she hadn't crossed a line (just), but that her remarks were "extremely distasteful".
In another incident she was proven to have made false claims and taken quotes out of context in order to smear.

Like I said, its not all about opinion.

Nancy66 · 06/12/2011 18:54

Neuro - the PCC didn't say that actually.

NeuromanticisedVisionsofXmas · 06/12/2011 18:54

Not in the main Statement, but the head of the PCC said it in an interview.

Nancy66 · 06/12/2011 18:56

...but it wasn't part of the official adjudication - which whole-heartedly endorsed freedom of speech and the right of columnists to give their opinions

Xmasbaby11 · 06/12/2011 18:56

Stories are too simple and don't express the complexity of a situation. Also they are badly written IMO.

ouryve · 06/12/2011 18:59

Haha!

Hahahahaha!!!

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! :o

They're a heap of reactionary shite. That's what's wrong with them.

limitedperiodonly · 06/12/2011 19:12

Jan Moir's piece was fair comment. Not a comment I'd have made, but...

Neuro how do you justify Charlie Brooker defending the broadcast of pre-recorded comments of Jonathan Ross and Russell Brand that were clear humiliation with a nasty misogynist slant - ie 'Look old git, my mate has fucked your grand daughter. Yes, the woman that belongs to you.'

Brand has form for this creepiness - at an awards ceremony he boasted about 'having a go' on Rod Stewart's daughter before Stewart subtly threatened him and he backtracked.

I'd expect a Guardian journalist such as Brooker to be at the forefront of the fight against the view that women aren't free participants in sex but objects to be owned, used, abused and judged.

I don't expect as much for journalists from a less enlightened paper but sometimes I'm pleasantly surprised.

ScarletLadyOfTheNight01 · 06/12/2011 19:21

Haven't read all the posts so sorry if this has been said.

They are full of hateful lies, and the Mail especially is massively every "ist" going (sexist, racist etc).

An explosion at my home was featured in The Sun and as neither I, nor anyone in my family, would answer the hounding reporters, they made up lies about it trying to insinuate that my ex was some sort of terrorist.

My Dad is a respected journalist and so I was brought up to hate the gutter press.

hwjm1945 · 06/12/2011 19:26

A week or so ago, ther was a report on a report or survey on the safety of home births - can't recall the deatail, but what was interesting was the way the same information was reported by the Mail and the Guardian. I can't recall the detail, but what was interseting was how both papers used the same stats/facts to put across a different view. The Mail said that stats showed home births wre way more risky than hosptial births for first children, whreas the Guardian majored on the fact that the risk of problems on a straighfoward home birth was low. Both are actually correct, in terms of being a description of the facts in the reprt, but v intersting how eahc paper used the facts in a way in whihc pushed either its own agenda or the agenda which it perceives its readers to have.

I am constantly amazed how"guardianistas" will not alow others to have opinions whihc are contrary to their own - the creed seems to be, if you do not agree with me, you are wrong, vile etc.

BTW, I do not read regularly tablos style papers, so have no particular axe to grind. I have noted in these posts that ther does not appear to be much of the personally drected vindictive criticism towards Guardian readers that there is towards Mail readers.

hwjm1945 · 06/12/2011 19:27

" I was brought up to hate the gutte press" So much for freedom f thought in your house then!!!!!!!!!!!