to be upset with what my child is learning at school / WWYD?

[IteotYEARawki]

My older boy is 5 and in his 3rd term of school so far (year 1).

He has learned that Guy Fawkes was hung, drawn, quartered and then burned on a bonfire.

That hundreds of people had their heads chopped off with a guillotine.

And the latest - that Anne Franks hid from the SS behind a bookcase, that people were marched off to concentration camps and that thousands, including children, were killed by gassing. And that the children were told they were going to have a shower when they were taken to the gas chamber.

There has been a museum display on Anne Franks & her life in town which was advertised on the radio - DS1 overheard it and started telling us all that he'd learned about it at school. Apparently his teacher has visited a concentration camp and described it, including the rooms full of boxes of bones.

I don't deny that history needs to be taught and that the Holocaust is part of it. But this graphic detail, at 5?

We already had a chat with his teacher after the Guy Fawkes thing. I don't think I'm being precious in not wanting him exposed to this stuff so soon. It'll take about 3-4 months for him to process through it all and then we'll have inconsolable crying at night while the horror hits him.

AIBU? Should we talk to his teacher again, or chat with the principal?

Never mind the contents of the lesson- he most certainly shouldn't be in that class. Reception is so very important- it's bonkers for him to miss it!

DS was taught about Anne Frank in KS1.
I returned a KS1 reading book saying he was not going to finish it because I was not prepared to go into an explanation of Hitler and his 'final solution' which was the next page. The book had photograph type pictures of kids in gasmasks etc not Horiible Histories drawings. All too much at 6 IMO.

I have some sympathy. There is a big difference between Horrible Histories style head chopping off and learning about the holocaust. They don't "get" the real horror of the former and just rather enjoy it. The latter, however, could be really frightening, especially given what happened to the children. It is relatively recent and displays a level of systematic hatred which is absent in most other "topics"

DS is 10 and, thank God, does history chronologically, so has not had "lessons" on the holocaust and we have only just started to talk about the holocaust at home. I think that it is more easily approached through literature than history at this age: there are some brilliant children's books on the subject. I cannot see what is to be gained from teaching any child about it at 5.

History has to include awful realities; but I do think that the NC and GCSE and A level syllabuses over obsessed with the holocaust. There are plenty of other interesting historical topics.

YANBU. I wouldn't want DS learning that next year either. No issue with him knowing the darker side of life, but not to that extent, not yet.

Holocaust and Anne Frank at ks1 can get children thinking about other people and experiences very different to them. I don't think it should be taught in depth, but assemblies on the annual memorial day to explain what it is all about are surely on a par with Rememberance day? Just without the whitewashed glory.

So why was Anne Frank hiding? Because that's the first thing a 5yo will ask.

Of course, and you explain that Anne was Jewish and the government had wrongly decided to blame the Jews for everything that had gone wrong.

You don't need to go into great political detail with every historical topic - pupils should revisit topics and gain greater insight as they mature. You can simplify it age appropriate, not avoid it entirely. I would not show photographs or films, but I would discuss it. I don't believe in 'no go' areas of history. But then I have children who are not over sensitive like that.

That is rubbish to say you should touch on ome topics as to revisit them they will then ls impact. It is the details which create th impact. You don't avoid sex ed until they are thirteen because you want 'impact'. You tell them age appropriate info eg where do babies come from. You dont leave it.

The holocaust is important to many families with jewish relatives, to people living today within 'ethnically cleansed' communities. It is not something tob shut away in a book for some children.

Just wanted to chip in because a lot of people queried that bit about take about 3-4 months for him to process through it all and then we'll have inconsolable crying at night while the horror hits him My DS is like this too (he's also five and a half), and because it's a bit unusual people sometimes dismiss it. Kids are all different, and just because some watch 'Horrible Histories' and don't get night terrors or anxiety attacks about things they heard about months ago - well, bully for them, I say. But if my DS heard vivid details of the Holocaust now, I know exactly how it would go. Surely there's two possiblities at this age - either the kid just won't get it and will just enjoy the gory thrill which is very wrong. Or the kid will get it but is far too young to deal with it. I think 6 is too young for detailed Holocaust history - the vivid details of it anyway. The IWM Holocaust Exhibition in London is only open to children in Year 9 and above, and even then if they are Year 9 or 10 they have to have a session with Museum staff before and after in order to be allowed to go in, so that they are able to set it in a proper context. The Holocaust deserves that level of respect.

I remember finding out about the Holocaust when I was at secondary school, an feeling embarrassed that no one had told me about this at all before then. Anne Frank didn't really discuss concentration camps or other such details. I felt guilty for my ignorance :(

SoH I'm shocked that your 4 year old is being told about witch trials, war and the Holocaust.

So it would seem that this madness is actually quite common then?

How rubbish - it is ridiculous to expect such young children to process such history in any sort of useful way. This would really bother me in several ways; that it is not appropriate for young children, that is it pointless and bad pedagogy and that it is really disrespectful to genocide and war victims and their families.

I'm also amazed that your 4 year old is reading about history at the library. Wow.

I read Anne Frank when I was 13 and "The boy in the striped pajamas" when I was 41. ( I visited Anne Franks house in Amsterdam and the Holocaust Exhibition at the IWM recently too )

I wouldn't have wanted to do any of these things any earlier than I did, but am glad I have now.

Its way way too young and I can't believe people are saying you are being precious. Precious!!?? To not want a five year old to know graphic details of torture and children being hunted down, torn from their parents and murdered?

Your child can choose to watch Horrible Histories.
They cannot choose what they do in school.

My ds, also five, is one of those kids who worries about scary stuff. He will turn off any program if it gets a bit spooky, and has nightmares about burglars and baddies coming to get him sometimes.

If they did this in his school I would be removing him. And furious.
YANBU.

You've misunderstood me slightly Beachcomber. The war for example. They have just had remembrance day so obviously they have had poppies and silences at school, brief assemblies and church services. All of the children have asked questions and they have a general overview. Around the same time y4 did an evacuation day, dressed up and then did an assembly presentation a week later which led to more questions. All of this is fine. I then choose at home how much more info she's able to handle when we chat about it. She also plays with older children in the playground and they tell her all sorts of macabre things.

And she isn't 'reading' history books at the library, she's 4 fgs . They have a topic at school, maybe y5 are doing the Great War and in the corner of the library will be a new display with resources, books, posters etc. What I meant is that it's perfectly possible for her to wander over to the new and shiny display, pick up a book, fliick through and read a sentence which says 'x number of men were killed on the somme' and she'll ask what that means before wandering back to Julia Donaldson et al. What I meant is that maybe they pick additional info up from elsewhere and my example was that even at 4 my dd can find info in ways you wouldn't automatically assume.

And she asked if witches were real (Hallowe'en) and the teacher told her that people were suspected of being witches once upon a time and investigated, no more, no less. My point is that you don't know what's been 'taught' and what's come from elsewhere.

I can't believe you're getting unsympathetic replies to your post. Far too much detail for a 5year old.

I'm still impressed that she can read 'x number of men were killed on the somme' at that age and for you to then discuss that with her.

My very average, bright in the way that I think all kids are, 5 year old, couldn't read that. I don't think I would want her to flick through a book about war but I am an old fashioned sort.

We had a Halloween display about witches in the library and I chatted to the DCs about women knowing how to use herbs as medicine and helping mothers have their babies and how people made up stories about such things being 'magic', I was trying to put a feminist slant on things...

So perhaps my 5 year old is further on than I think what with us discussing women's history, politics and propaganda!

But we torture and then execute the man who was a sweet baby 4months earlier. It is all about how much detail you go into, not adding the story altogether.

I also think it is far too young, and developmentally not particularly easy for the average 5 year old to process.

They are only small for such a short, short period of time. They don't need to know all of life's harshest realities - which, let's face it, most of us can't comprehend as adults - when they really should just be playing and learning the basics.

I also agree that it sensationalising history and that as none of these children will know why Guy Fawkes did what he did etc it is pretty bloody pointless.

Finally, I would have concerns that this sort of graphic stuff can be very difficult to process for some children who don't have the types of relationships with their parents where they can ask about these things if they are scared. Some kids have horrendous things going on at home, too. They don't need to have the world portrayed as evil and joyless at five.

'Avoiding'! I hate iPads!

She's just good at reading. She does it in the local library too. If I'm stuck like an upturned tortoise on the beanbag whilst trying to bf the baby, she's free to roam the children's section and they have books up to age 16 so she does idly pick things up and flick through them, though they don't hold her interest.

And I did EXACTLY what you did about the witches thing.

I think you're right OP , five is too young. However I remember many years ago marching into the school for a word with the teacher about the Horrible History books my PFB was bringing home. Bet they had a good laugh about that in the staffroom