to be upset with what my child is learning at school / WWYD?

[IteotYEARawki]

My older boy is 5 and in his 3rd term of school so far (year 1).

He has learned that Guy Fawkes was hung, drawn, quartered and then burned on a bonfire.

That hundreds of people had their heads chopped off with a guillotine.

And the latest - that Anne Franks hid from the SS behind a bookcase, that people were marched off to concentration camps and that thousands, including children, were killed by gassing. And that the children were told they were going to have a shower when they were taken to the gas chamber.

There has been a museum display on Anne Franks & her life in town which was advertised on the radio - DS1 overheard it and started telling us all that he'd learned about it at school. Apparently his teacher has visited a concentration camp and described it, including the rooms full of boxes of bones.

I don't deny that history needs to be taught and that the Holocaust is part of it. But this graphic detail, at 5?

We already had a chat with his teacher after the Guy Fawkes thing. I don't think I'm being precious in not wanting him exposed to this stuff so soon. It'll take about 3-4 months for him to process through it all and then we'll have inconsolable crying at night while the horror hits him.

AIBU? Should we talk to his teacher again, or chat with the principal?

The class teacher in year one isn't 'teaching' these topics! They are current, seasonal topics or thing going on in the local community. He must have got the info from school assembly.

I would be happy for my 5 year old to be discussing these things on a simple level from a ten min assembly talk. They have not spent hours looking at this aged five.

I really don't know where you lot are sending your kids to school . DS was not told about the gas chambers in Reception!

This is NZ not UK (going to sleep in a min but will read any other replies tomorrow at work).

Not sure if it's relevant but my mother's side of the family are Jewish and we did lose relatives. He already knows the stories about his great grandmother who worked with the Resistance and was arrested. However they were kept age appropriate.

I suppose I'm just annoyed that he's been taught something he isn't old enough to understand but is old enough to be upset by. And I don't see the value in that sort of lesson.

How can you discuss the Holocaust on a simple level, it is a very complex issue which brings about lots negative emotions, not appropriate for that age group imo.

I am really surprised that such young children are being taught about the Holocaust. I have known several schools and have relatives and friends who teach and I have never heard of grisly history being taught before Y4.

In Y1 my precious last born DS2 learned about the local area, animals and plants. Death and destruction were not included.

I have known Y5s freak out about the idea of being evacuated. I can't imagine how a Y1 would process the Holocaust.

I completely sympathise with your concern about your child being 'taught something he isn't old enough to understand but is old enough to be upset by', OP. I wouldn't have wanted my kids to have to deal with all that when they were 5 either. But at the same time, I am cringing at 'Anne Franks'.

I did a lot of history at school and then studied it at uni.

At the school I went to we did WWI for O level but WWII was reserved for those who went on to do Higher history (Scottish school) because it was considered to be a topic that needed a certainly amount of maturity to deal with due to the disturbing nature of the Holocaust.

There is plenty of History young children can do that isn't about maiming people or violently murdering them.

OP, if the details give to your son were as explicit are you believe than I agree completely with you. Too much information for a 5 year old. My son is 6.5 and after hgearing all about Poppy Day and the soldiers who died, he was worried every time someone was late etc that they were dead! And we are very open with him andhe's spent lots of time in hospital and faced with life threatening situations......so I don't think you are being precious.

Children need to be told the truth but in ways that are APPROPRIATE and manageable for their age/stage of development.

I'm not sure avout the whole 3-4 months to process then inconsolable crying.....in my experience both as a parent and a child care worker, if a child was going to be upset about this then it would be pretty soon after the event and definitely within a few days of mulling it over in their heads.

YANBU. My yr1 DD would be distraught at learning these things (maybe not Guy Faulkes, but certainly the Holocaust). She would worry it was going to happen to her and her family, and has very little idea of the "past". She was upset enough about Remembrance day, and worries about the idea of orphans / people without food or shelter in developing countries. Hearing snippets of news on the car radio upset her. Of course I want her to understand the real world, but not be freaked out by it by being exposed to centuries-worth of evil deeds before she's 7.

Just to clarify my earlier comment we look at the Holocaust in KS3 RE not History.

Yanbu. My ds is five (not yet at school though) and would be very upset to learn about such things. I also turn the radio off when the news comes on. There is plenty of time to learn about the horror of the world. Until then there are nicer parts of history to learn about. I have told ds about Captain Cook and the explorers, they learn about aboriginal culture and stories at preschool, he likes to talk about the 'olden days'.

From a Holocaust education point of view, although it is (and should be) covered very basically in primary through Anne Frank, although nowhere near 5 years old, we find that the youngest age group able to process the information effectively is year 9 (13-14yrs). Younger than that and it simply becomes a horror story, they're too young to grasp the events and 'reasoning' which resulted in the Holocaust.

He hasn't got the info from school assemblies because they don't have them. He's got it from discussing it with his teacher in the classroom. I'm not suggesting she spent an afternoon's lesson time on it but she's talked in enough detail for him to learn things I think aren't suitable.

When we talked with her after Guy Fawkes, I mean my husband mentioned to her at pickup time that DS1 had come out with XYZ and did she know where it was from, and she said they'd talked about it in class. He didn't say anything other than that, or that we were surprised at the gory detail. And no, I suspect they didn't talk at all about why GF tried to blow up Parliament in the first place, just that he did.

The teacher is late 50s ish, has children (I work with one of them) and up till now I would have said is fab.

Is no one listening? The class are not studying such topics in yr 1! I have a history degree and taught secondary history before the three small children got in the way.

The only way to avoid your ds studying the truth behind bonfire night, or that Bad Things happen in the world is to pull him out of all assemblies or home ed.

Agree that 5 is too young for the holocaust and that it is not in the national curriculum for Year 1. At my children's school, they might hear about it briefly in assembly on Holocaust Memorial Day, but actual teaching about WW2 is kept until Year 6.

Slightly older children are often fascinated by the gory details - horrible histories etc - but IME that kicks in nearer age 7 than 5. Especially if the child is the oldest in the family and hasn't been exposed to the morbid imagination of older siblings. I think your son's teacher is pitching her lessons too old.

On the one hand, children tend not to get as upset as adults over these things, because they can only process the information on a level that they can handle. On the other hand, they can get very upset by small details that they are able to grasp - like their own house catching fire or a boat sinking.

I think I was thinking of Anne Frank's Diary when I typed that. Not sure I can blame that one on the phone!

Then if, in his case, it isn't an assembly an they don't have any sort f education with older kids, then what kind of school is this?

I think kids should learn the reasons behind things. They don't have to watch someone bein hung drawn and quartered!

CaptainBarnacle - you are not listening.

They. Do. Not. Have. School. Assemblies. Here.

I've worked a lot with the Early Years including in teaching, and I think the amount of detail your DS is hearing about distressing history is unsuitable for 5 year olds. In my long experience in many settings/ schools I'd say it's very unusual too, and most people would sympathise with you.

I think my older DCs have learnt a lot from finding out about many things you mention, but it's all about what is appropriate for their age and stage of development. There's a massive difference between a 4 and 11 year old for example.

OP YANBU; 5 is far too young to understand the context of these events and they upset adults, let alone small children.

Think you just have to discuss these things conversationally, with lots of reminders along the lines of "thank goodness that kind of thing no longer happens" and "times were terrible in the olden days, aren't we lucky to be living now".

I really disagree with that suggestion. If children are old enough to be learning about the Holocaust and other particularly emotive parts of history then they are old enough to be taught that these things do still happen today. I thought the point of learning history was to learn lessons from the past about confronting today's issues and to stop making the same stupid mistakes over and over again.

Can you go in and ask to see the curriculum and try and look at exactly what is being taught? It's hard to know what's actually being taught and how much of it is probing questions from a young mind.

DD is 4 and in reception and they do cover topics briefly and I have expanded on them at home. So she knows about Guy Fawkes (including his motives and the role of parliament, interestingly she doesn't understand why he's a villain), Henry VIII, trials of witches, war- including a very brief overview of the Holocaust with scant details and the Titanic. The thing is I know my child and at what level to pitch it so that she is interested and sympathetic but not traumatised.

It's a toughie. The general themes, no I don't think he's too young for but the level of detail I would baulk at. You need to go in and find out what's been said and what's coming up. Because the other thing is that my dd though 4 can read well enough to pick up a basic book in her school library and glean extra details from it.