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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to have said the following to a dad outside the supermarket this morning?

112 replies

TidyDancer · 03/12/2011 16:06

"excuse me, but there's a toilet inside"

The dad in question had just yanked the pants of his (estimated) four-year-old DS down outside the shop and instructed him to "piss up the wall". The little boy looked a bit confused and frankly embarrassed to be doing this. I (politely) called over to the dad and said the above. He told me "he's just a fucking kid" and told the boy to carry on.

Was I wrong to say anything? The child did not hear what I said, as the dad was standing at least 10-15 feet away and I made sure I said it quietly so as not to embarrass the child further. All parents get caught with a desperate child every now and then (I've been there myself!), but I fail to see how this dad could not have walked the child inside and led him to a cubicle. I really don't think I was wrong, the toilet was about a 20 second walk away and the child certainly didn't look like he wanted to pee up a wall.

OP posts:

ballstoit · 03/12/2011 21:50

YABU.

On the first Saturday of December I guess the supermarket was rammed...the man would have had no idea how long he'd be waiting to use the toilet. I'd rather my DS (or DD) had a quick pee outside than peed on the supermarket floor and then had to stand around outside, in the cold in wet clothes. I have never pulled my own pants down and weed in public though... although I'm sure if I was a man you'd assume I would do.

TBH if you were staring at my DS's face while he was having a pee then there's every chance I'd have told you where to go as well. I'd love to know how you managed to speak loud enough for the Dad to hear but not his DS . Perhaps it's the same superpowers that enable you to what the boy was thinking?

I presume that as the thought of the wee on the wall was so offensive to you, you also asked the store to wash the wall down? Or would that not give you the chance to publicly belittle a child and his father, and therefore give you no satisfaction.

pigletmania · 03/12/2011 21:52

Well yes ghoul they can learn that this is acceptable behaviour. There was a toilet very nearby its not like they were out in the park or in the open where there was no toilet nearby. If you must do it, do it discreetly.

TheSkiingGardener · 03/12/2011 21:53

YANBU.

He sounds like skank. Poor child, learning language and behaviour in that way.

pigletmania · 03/12/2011 21:55

Exactly theskiing what about the language used by the father then, and his ds learning that from him .

southeastastra · 03/12/2011 21:56

i wouldn't have said anything

Ghoulwithadragontattoo · 03/12/2011 21:56

Firawla - My 3 year old DD's bladder control is not very good. If she needs to go she needs to go. I encourage her to go to a toilet where possible but I do also let her pee outside if it's the choice between that and wet pants. Believe me if I could make her hold on until we got somewhere more suitable I would. But I don't think it's unusual at her age. I try to be as discreet as the situation allows and alway have hand gel but it's less than ideal. I would guess it's more likely the boy was 3 than 4 as usually their control is better by 4 (I hope so anyway).

MitziKinsky · 03/12/2011 21:57

YANBU.

If there is no loo nearby find a tree to wee behind, or do it out of sight of others.

But lets face it, a father who instructs his child to "piss up against the wall" was never going to reply to you politely.

ballstoit · 03/12/2011 21:57

firawla why do you assume all children develop bladder control at the same rate? I've toilet trained 4 children (2 DSS, 1 DS, 1 DD), 2 of them had good control very quickly, 1 took longer and 1 still struggles.

My DD crawled at 5 months...should I assume that every parent whose daughter doesn't crawl at that age is doing something wrong?

AriesWithBellsOn · 03/12/2011 22:10

But what's so hard about taking them round the corner to somewhere a bit discreet so that they learn that ideally in this country it's generally not considered acceptable to drop your kecks and piss where you want?

Original poster

TidyDancer · 03/12/2011 22:20

Okay, to be clear, the child definitely did not hear me say anything. I am certain of this. I didn't say what I did to the father in a P/A way at all. I knew he was from the area, but I spoke to him as if he wasn't, to point out that there were toilets inside so the little boy didn't have to pee up the wall. His reaction was aggressive (as was the way he spoke to the child), my words were not. I also was not staring at the child, how ridiculous. I'm sure that most of you would notice, however, if a parent yanked a child's trousers off them in the street. This was not a case of bladder control, the child did not want to pee up a wall, he wanted to use a toilet. The father didn't want to take him inside from what I could tell.

Like I said, I have a DS who I've had to allow to pee in public in an emergency before. But I would not have let him do it if a very nearby toilet was an option.

Amber, I assure you, I did not cause a scene. I said nothing to the father after telling him where the toilet was. If anything, it was the father's attitude that caused the scene.

I certainly did not publicly belittle a child and his father. What a daft assertion. And yes, I did ask the shop to wash down the wall, of course. ballstoit, try reading my posts properly in future. The father was standing a good distance away from the child, and I was nearer to the father. It was plainly obvious from the child's reaction to his father telling him to piss up the wall that he was embarrassed and didn't want to do it.

OP posts:

ballstoit · 03/12/2011 22:22

I'm picturing the 3 supermarkets that I use and can honestly say that there is no 'round the corner to somewhere discreet' at any of them. They are surrounded by car park and windows to the store unless you trek to the other side of the car park.

What I think is that if the op had said it was a Mum and not mentioned that he used the word 'piss' then more posters would have told her she was BU. None would have said that the mother probably just wees wherever she stands either. We don't know the circumstances, or how old the child actually is (the boy could have special needs or be a 2 year old who is big for his age).

There is a lot of outrageous stuff going on in the world...a small child having a pee in public is not one of those things...and the snobbery of the responses has really got my back up.

Original poster

TidyDancer · 03/12/2011 22:25

The gender of the parent would've made no difference IMO, ballstoit. And that was the language that man used. I didn't tone it up or down, that was just what he said. So you can put variables into this to fit your opinion if you want, but the fact remains that the child didn't want to pee up a wall and was embarrassed that he father told him to.

OP posts:

Original poster

TidyDancer · 03/12/2011 22:26

he his

OP posts:

Sidge · 03/12/2011 22:32

I think public pissing is pretty grim regardless of what age you are.

Weeing in a bush in the middle of nowhere isn't really public so not a big deal and of course if no toilets nearby then you do what you gotta do.

Peeing against a wall when there are toilets nearby is just lazy really. And child wee is no cleaner than adult wee.

ballstoit · 03/12/2011 22:33

tidydancer you've not mentioned asking the shop to clean the wall. You have sad you could see the child's 'mortified' face but that you weren't lookng at him. And that you 'quietly' 'called' over to the father. And that the father yanked down hs son's pants while standing 10-15 feet away. Maybe you should read your own posts properly?

Perhaps the father also recognses you from your area, and that's why your 'helpful' remark was met wth aggression.

AriesWithBellsOn · 03/12/2011 22:36

FFS there is nothing snobbish about objecting to urinating in the street!

And I'll repeat, if people constantly going round minding their own business about every single thing and never butt in about anything, then nothing would ever get done, nothing would ever change, no one would ever stand up to unacceptable behaviour etc etc. There is always a busier side of the supermarket i.e. BY THE BLOODY DOOR and a not so busy side. He could have taken him to the not so busy side. I guess you wouldn't mind about someone relieving himself against your house wall? After all, that's no different is it?

Rollergirl1 · 03/12/2011 22:37

Tidy: Sounds like you're just after justification as you clearly don't think YABU. You seem very certain of everything. How do you know the boy wasn't desperate? How do you know that he definitely didn't hear you? How do you know that he was embarrassed? And you did publicly belittle a child and his father? It's not an assertion. You have no idea what the little boy thought and you yourself are assuming a hell of a lot.

I don't actually agree with letting a child pee somewhere like this either. But the way that you are insisting that you are right about absolutely everything you saw when you are merely assuming is really irritating. Get over yourself.

Original poster

TidyDancer · 03/12/2011 22:39

I suspect my remark was met with aggression because the father knew he was wrong. I didn't say I had mentioned asking the shop to clean the wall, I didn't mention it before because it wasn't the shops attitude to this that I was asking for opinions on. I'm happy to make that clear for you though. And in case there's any lingering confusion on that, the shop did wash the wall down.

I said I wasn't staring at him, I didn't say I didn't see his face. There's a difference. I did quietly call over to the father, not sure what's bothered you about that. The father yanked down his child's pants and then moved away. I hope that makes things clearer for you. You were making big assumptions and getting them wrong about my post, so I wanted to address you, since you seemed upset by the confusion.

OP posts:

fedupwithdeployment · 03/12/2011 22:42

I recently saw a child of about 4 or 5 pooping in St Vincent St in Glasgow. Wasn't quite sure what was going on when I walked past (lunchtime), but the evidence was there when I walked back. That was truely disgusting. She was with 2 adults (well 2 women were talking while she was pooping) No excuses - plenty of public loos or Mc D's....or they could have cleared itup!!!!

Original poster

TidyDancer · 03/12/2011 22:43

I'm not after justification at all Rollergirl, but you are right, I don't think I was being unreasonable, I just wondered if others agreed. He didn't hear me because I didn't speak loudly enough for him to hear. I wasn't close enough to him. I definitely didn't publicly belittle a child. I would never have done that. If the child was at all belittled, it wasn't by me. And he was embarrassed at being semi-naked in public. I have children myself, I have many friends with children, I know what an embarrassed child looks like.

To be clear on the age of the child, if anything he was older. I guessed four, but could've been five or a young six.

If the majority of the people here had thought IWBU, I would've accepted that. I've been on MN a long time and I know better than to post here expecting every response to be in agreement.

OP posts:

squeakytoy · 03/12/2011 22:46

I suspect my remark was met with aggression because the father knew he was wrong

I suspect not.

You must have been very close to them when he pulled his childs trousers down and told him to pee against the wall.

You must then have moved away very quickly if you were then 15feet away

ballstoit · 03/12/2011 22:47

The snobbery I'm referring to is;

No doubt the father is the sort of man who pisses wherever he wants so that every alleyway & back street in the country smells rank.

What do you expect from someone with such a foul mouth.

And the fact that the OP has referred to the guy as 'lazy' several times, because he disagrees with her when she tries to embarass him. In the area I live parents use the word 'piss' in the same way that they use 'wee' or 'pee'...that doesn't make them poor parents. I think that the word 'fuck' was unnecessary but then again if someone embarassed me and my child when they had no idea of our reasons for doing something, I might use it myself.

And I'd rather someone weed up my wall than my window, which may well have been round the corner of the supermarket.

Original poster

TidyDancer · 03/12/2011 22:48

The father was 10-15 feet away. I was never closer than that to the child, squeaky. Not sure what your point is there?

OP posts:

squeakytoy · 03/12/2011 22:52

My point is that either the father was talking to his son very loudly, or you were stood very close to them and then moved away.

20 feet is a fair distance to be sure that only the father heard you, not the child..

Original poster

TidyDancer · 03/12/2011 22:52

Sigh. I didn't try to embarrass the father. I wanted to stop him from embarrassing the child. Are you a parent, balls? You tend to get a different attitude to children when you are. I saw that little boy unhappy and it made me think of my DS. If I was not a parent, I may not have said anything, I don't know. The urination was pretty horrible, but the embarrassment of the child was worse.

I said nothing about a window, balls. The father and the child were at the front of the supermarket. Round one side is the delivery entrance, round the other is the car park. Round the back is a housing estate.

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