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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU want my boys not to continue Scouts?

63 replies

bubby64 · 01/12/2011 23:28

Sorry, bit of a long story is they went up to Scouts in September, as they are 11 this month, but, I have to be be honest, they are a bit immature and also very small for thier age. (they were very premature twins and still have a few physical problems) They were picked on at a Scout camp by a group whose ringleaders were a couple of boys that had bullied them at school, and after this camp, I went to see the scout leader with my concerns, and he went the whole 9 yards, had the ringleaders parents in and generally made a big thing about how bullying is not tolerated, how they should all look after etc.
Tonight, both boys came home wet through and covered in mud, and in tears. They had got hurt playing "takedown bulldog" organised by the same little shit child who bullied them before. Both my lads were targetted and a whole group jumped on them. The scout master said they had to "tough up a bit" or they would always be "picked on". Yes, they may need to act a bit more mature, but when they had a shower, i saw they were covered in bruises! Do I just leave it, or make a complaint again, and have the other boys say they are "mummies boys", or do I stop them from going all together

OP posts:
GreenIceAndChristmasHam · 01/12/2011 23:30

What do they want to do?

IneedAChristmasNickname · 01/12/2011 23:32

Would it be possible for them to go back to Cubs for a while?

AgentZigzag · 01/12/2011 23:34

The leader sounded as though he was trying to sort it in the beginning, why do you think he's changed?

I can understand your dilemma, you want them to be able to negotiate the difficulties everyone has whatever they do in life, and why the fuck should they have to leave when it's not them who's the problem.

But then you want to protect them and not be sending them to a place where they're going to encounter these boys.

Covered in bruises is definately not on, I would lean towards forcing the scout leader to take control and do something, why should your lads suffer?

serpentina · 01/12/2011 23:39

I would take them out of Scouts without hesitation. Find them something else to do on that evening, take them swimming or something. Getting roughed up by other children won't toughen them up it will just make them miserable.

Original poster
bubby64 · 01/12/2011 23:41

Greenice At the moment, one says he never wants to go back, and the other wants to go back, but this all might change tomorrow.
Nickname - no, that why they had to go up, because they had Beavers going up to Cubs, and they needed the space.
The thing is, I always thought they were a bit too small and immature for tthe scout group they were joining, as they are quite boisturous and there is anearly 8 months between my boys and the next youngest, who are all already at high school, whereas my 2 are still in yr 6 primary. |But they have been so proud to be Scouts up to now, saying they were now not "babies" in Cubs!

OP posts:
Almostfifty · 01/12/2011 23:42

I think your Scout Leader needs to see this month's Leader's booklet (Focus) and act upon it.

There's a very helpful bit in it about how to tackle bullying.

If he hasn't got it, tell him they can order free copies from the scout info centre.

If you get nowhere with the leader, contact the district commissioner. You should be able to get their name and number through contacting Scoutbase.

Mind they should be coming home wet through and covered in mud, but beaming through it.

Hope you get it sorted.

timetosmile · 01/12/2011 23:45

Is there another local troop with spaces?

How old are the boisterous nasty lads? Could your boys start again at e.g. Easter if the toublemakers are leaving then?

If it's any consolation, DS1 (10.5) and a couple of his schoofriends have found the transition difficult too this term, the activities are really strenuous and even without vindictiveness, some of the lads are really big 14yr olds, and can pack a fair punch even when just mucking about in a friendly way.

GreenIceAndChristmasHam · 01/12/2011 23:46

Ah, well if they're not absolutely hell bent on continuing, I really wouldn't send them again.

IneedAChristmasNickname · 01/12/2011 23:48

bubby I had a feeling that would be the case! I would speak to the leader then, as coming home covered in bruises is not on! Hope you get it sorted!

Original poster
bubby64 · 01/12/2011 23:49

DH said he doesn't want them to go, it has always been a bit of an issue, as Scouts doen't end til 9pm anyway, and its a school night. But, on the other hand, after the lecture by the scoutmaster before, there have been no real problems except they were always the last to be picked for games etc, as they were young and small.
I suppose the leader thinks that the games were just the normal boisturous affairs that they had been before, I suppose he can't single out my 2 and say they shouldn't take part, but all the other boys are at least a head taller than mine, and they are aged almost 12 -15yrs, so thats quite a big step up in size and maturity from my 2 lads.

OP posts:
Almostfifty · 01/12/2011 23:52

Scouts have Laws. They are:

A Scout is to be trusted.
A Scout is loyal.
A Scout is friendly and considerate.
A Scout belongs to the worldwide family of Scouts.
A Scout has courage in all difficulties.
A Scout makes good use of time and is careful of possessions and property.
And the one you need: A Scout has self-respect and respect for others.

If this is not happening, it needs to be re-iterated. Do they not have the oldest ones keeping an eye on them?

Original poster
bubby64 · 01/12/2011 23:58

time no, this one is 5 miles away, the next nearest is 10 miles away, besides which, there are no boys they know in the other group.
I think I will leave it to tomorrow, when all is calmer and clearer, before I make a decision, I do think that if they decide to continue, i will have another word with the leader. Maybe we will just stop until the New Year and then , if they want, give it another go.

OP posts:
timetosmile · 02/12/2011 00:01

We are aiming for going most weeks, but not the most long-distance hikes, and no camp until next summer...he's just not up to it in terms of stamina and size...but I think a lot of yr6 and 7 boys find that, talking to other Mums.
On the plus side, there are some great older lads there, who DS really looks up to, and he feels very grownup and responsible to be a Scout at last.

Original poster
bubby64 · 02/12/2011 00:03

Almost - this is what the leader told everyone again after the camp incident!
Not tonight, apparently, the older ones were doing something with the leader, and the younger ones were sent out (in the rain, mind you!) to play some games. The problem is the boy who bullied them before is quite popular, and the others of his age (12/13) tend to follow his lead!

OP posts:
jellybeans · 02/12/2011 00:04

I am having the same issues but with cubs. Very simelar issue that it's uncanny! My twins have also issues from birth, physical issues and a gang of little horrors are verbally and physically bullying them. I am gutted as they seemed to love cubs (and the camps they have been on and other fab opportunities) until recently when some more not so nice boys joined. I don't know whether they should stick it out, I should speak to leader or try another night group or give up. Akela did punish the offenders last time but they continue. It's tough one..

Pandemoniaa · 02/12/2011 00:04

I'd be inclined to stop sending them to Scouts. It doesn't seem much fun and it may well be that your twins are not ready to make the transition from Cubs and they won't be the first to discover this.

My ds1 and several of his friends also struggled when they joined at only just 11. They'd been incredibly keen Cubs - ds1 was a sixer - and were very proud to go up to Scouts. However, when they got there it was all a bit much. It was their first term at secondary school and at Scouts they were surrounded by 14 and 15 year olds who were (to the boys) the size of grown men who seemed too large for the Scout Hall. Also, whilst there was no bullying, activities were very physical, supervision a little on the minimal side and everything was simply too full on. To add to this, the finishing time of 9pm made for exhausted boys.

It was a real shame to see such keen Cubs turn into reluctant Scouts and if the transition age had just been a little older I think things could have been very different.

It might well be that your twins would be ready to try Scouts again if you leave it for a while but there's no shame in pulling them out now. After all, it is supposed to be an enjoyable activity, not one to be endured.

Original poster
bubby64 · 02/12/2011 00:08

time thats a good idea, although they enjoyed the night hike they did, even though it was 7 miles, but this was on an extended evening just before they broke up for 1/2 term, so they didn't need to go to school next day, also, they were told that if it was too much, the leader would call a car to pick them up.
The evenings where there is an organised activity for all arn't so bad, its night like tonight, where they are left to their own devices a bit, which are the problem. Maybe it will be better when their friends move up in Easter.

OP posts:
timetosmile · 02/12/2011 00:09

Without diminishing OPs concerns at all, most posters on here seem to have had pretty positive experiences in the past...so just want to say a big, big 'Thank You' to all those who volunteer week after week in the Scouting movement, often having to manage kids who can be a right pain in the arse a little challenging.
You are all absolutely fab Thanks

curlycubes · 02/12/2011 00:09

Thing is (from my understanding, having a son who has just joined Beavers) is that the leaders are volunteers and have full time jobs anyway.

Would it be a good idea to go and help at a couple of meetings and see exactly what goes on? Maybe all the kids came home covered in mud and bruises not just your twins? At least if you were present at a meeting you could see how your boys interact and if there was a problem.

Then see what your boys want to do - stay or leave?

My DH stopped our 5 year old going on a night hike along a coastal path in the dark on a stormy night but the rest of the Beaver colony went.. They do seem to do things that above and beyond " the health and safety that schools dictate". I do not see that as a bad thing actually and was furious with DH, however, that is another story!

tallwivglasses · 02/12/2011 00:11

Just skimmed but wanted to reply. Try karate or something similar. Physical confidence is a wonderful thing.

WhoopsyLa · 02/12/2011 00:14

Can you get them into another one? Maybe changing to a diferent one would be best? That one sounds no good...there is a simiar group called Forest something or other...will google...they are nationwide and very good apparently..

WhoopsyLa · 02/12/2011 00:17

Ah yes woodcraft folk Not as hippysh as it sounds I don't think....more like a nature based scouts...loads of outdoor things and crafts..

Original poster
bubby64 · 02/12/2011 00:22

timeto - I was one of the most regular parent volunteers when they were in Cubs, but I work til 7.30 on a scout night, so can't volunteer there.
I also am a St John member, so I am one of those week after week people! unfortunatly, we dont have a Cadet group at our St John, or they would have been there!
jellybeans we have to talk more often, I am on the multiple births board a lot!
Pandamoniam I agree about the age, maybe the year they turn 12 would be better than the year they turn 11.
tall we are very rural here, nearest martial arts clubs 12-14 miles away. Besides, they tried it before, and didn't like it.
Cubs was brilliant for them, increased their self confidence and independance no end, maybe scouts will be better if i give it a few months.

OP posts:
WilsonFrickett · 02/12/2011 00:24

I vividly remember 'going up' to Guides was just before we went up to 'big school' and it was a kind of practice run. But the age gap between us and the next Guides wasn't nearly as much as you mention OP. Maybe it would be worth seeing if theres any other packs around where they wont be so much the youngest? Not that I want to excuse the boy who is bullying them, but if they are chuffed to be Scouts it seems a bit Sad to withdraw them.

Kladdkaka · 02/12/2011 01:08

I was a scout leader many, many years ago. Long before CRB checks, health and safety regs and all that. Even back then this game was banned. Scouts weren't allowed to play it because children, often the smallest, got hurt. Have the rules changed?

I moved over to guides where I always had a zero tolerance of any sort of meaness or bullying. If it were my group and they'd already had a talking to and it was continuing, they'd be out the door. I volunteer my time so that children can come along and have fun. If you're interferring with that, you can get lost. I've no time for it at all.