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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

AIBU want my boys not to continue Scouts?

63 replies

bubby64 · 01/12/2011 23:28

Sorry, bit of a long story is they went up to Scouts in September, as they are 11 this month, but, I have to be be honest, they are a bit immature and also very small for thier age. (they were very premature twins and still have a few physical problems) They were picked on at a Scout camp by a group whose ringleaders were a couple of boys that had bullied them at school, and after this camp, I went to see the scout leader with my concerns, and he went the whole 9 yards, had the ringleaders parents in and generally made a big thing about how bullying is not tolerated, how they should all look after etc.
Tonight, both boys came home wet through and covered in mud, and in tears. They had got hurt playing "takedown bulldog" organised by the same little shit child who bullied them before. Both my lads were targetted and a whole group jumped on them. The scout master said they had to "tough up a bit" or they would always be "picked on". Yes, they may need to act a bit more mature, but when they had a shower, i saw they were covered in bruises! Do I just leave it, or make a complaint again, and have the other boys say they are "mummies boys", or do I stop them from going all together

OP posts:

Groovee · 02/12/2011 08:24

I'd be looking for another scout group to be honest.

AugustMoon · 02/12/2011 12:52

Could you move to another scout group or, as someone else suggested, back to cubs?
This really isn't in the spirit of scouting and your boys shouldn't have to miss out.

spiderpig8 · 02/12/2011 13:04

I'd encourage them to keep going .They won'r be the youngest for long.there'll probably be another batch of newbies moving up from cubs after xmas

spiderpig8 · 02/12/2011 13:06

Also I wonder if you do baby them a bit ? watching 11 yo's shower is not normal you know.If you treat them their aga they will likely become more mature.

Almostfifty · 02/12/2011 13:09

When are the other children in their year due to go up OP? It might be worth them just popping along occasionally till they've got other friends along.

I'd have another word with the leader as well, if there's one child in particular, he'll probably have a wee word.

I imagine they're just about to finish for Christmas anyway, so maybe use the time away as a cool down, then try again in January.

I hope you manage to sort something out. I hate it when someone leaves because of another child, especially if their parents haven't discussed it with me. (Obviously not what you've done, but you know what I mean.)

wahwahwah · 02/12/2011 13:13

Boxing, karate... Have you thought about sending them to a martial arts club? They will learn self discipline, how to look after themselves and it does teach them a lot about self-respect.

I would be tempted to kick up a huge stink and whisk them away but they need to learn how to cope with crap (life is full of it) and how to deal with bullies (they are not just for childhood, you know). You don't want them to feel that the first option is to retreat.

Speak to the leader of the group again. Tell him that on, so rough and tumble and name-calling is just about bearable, but outright bullying and assault is not. Has he not read Lord of the Flies?

AgentProvocateur · 02/12/2011 13:15

I have nothing but praise for the scouting movement and all the leaders. Obviously, every troop is different, but I love the fact that they're not H&S obsessed, and the boys (and it is only boys in ours) get the chance to take risks and think for themselves. It has given my DSs skills, confindence and they have made great friends there.

OP, I'd not do anything hastily. Yours won't be the youngest for long, and if you withdraw them now, they might not get back in if there's a waiting list.

The playing out in the rain and the boisterousness (sp) wouldn't bother me but the bullying would. I know it would be stamped down on in our group.

cmt1375 · 02/12/2011 13:16

i am a Scout Leader and I had always worked on the understanding that Bulldog was banned. I have just tried to find the rules but can't find it specifically, however general guidlines on physical games indicate that you need to be very aware of size differences in participants. I echo the poster further up who says go to the district and get this sorted. Your boys sound like they will benefit from Scouts and they are unlikely to be the youngest for long.

exoticfruits · 02/12/2011 13:34

I think that you are just unlucky with the scout group.
I would go to district and get it sorted.
I also thought Bulldog had been banned for years.

lljkk · 02/12/2011 13:38

I take DS1 to a scout group that is 12 miles away because of bullying (& other) issues with local group; luckily he didn't start until nearly 12, so it won't feel like such a long haul all the commuting.
I wouldn't blame you for pulling them, OP, at least for now.

Ours play bulldog, seems to work ok for them. Lots of Manhunt, too.

omgomgomg · 02/12/2011 13:58

I'd be asking Akela to make the much older scouts take turns at being with the younger group to crack down on bullying. All they'd really need to do in this case is stick like glue to the bully each week on a rota basis and he wouldn't get a chance to start anything.

Photograph the bruises and approach Akela with the evidence. There is a difference between rough play and picking on weaker kids.

anothermadamebutterfly · 02/12/2011 14:07

It sounds horrible. I would take them out and find something else for them to do. Karate, swimming, anything where they are not bullied and pushed around.

Whatmeworry · 02/12/2011 14:16

Roughhousing, hazing new boys and mud are part of being boys, and being the youngest means they will get bruised more than bigger boys in the same game.

To handle the possible bullying, my approach would be to have a quiet word with the scout leaders, take the line of the smaller kids getting knocked about in bulldog and bruising rather than overt bullying, and ask that one of the bigger kids keeps an eye on the littlies.

But they may have a point re toughening up, so I think that if they want to keep on going I'd be for it, especially try and keep them there until newer newbies join.

Insomnia11 · 02/12/2011 14:21

I think the bullies should be kicked out. They have done it before, they have had fair warning and if it happens again they should go, end of.

AliGrylls · 02/12/2011 15:07

I would have another word. I understand the idea the people need to "toughen up" but toughening up does not come from being bullied. Toughening up comes from having confidence and confidence can only come from positive experiences and achievements. Tell the leaders to bloody get their arses into gear or you are going to be taking your children out of there.

I was bullied as a child and the one thing that helped to build my confidence was having something I was good at (music and swimming). Could you try and find your twins a hobby that they are good at and enjoy? If they are good at something it will make them stand out in a more positive way and will take them into contact with children that are more like them.

Just a suggestion - I know it made a huge difference to me when I had a rough time.

2ddornot2dd · 02/12/2011 15:21

I'm a guide leader, so maybe see this differently, but maybe your scout leader has been watching carefully since the last incident, and thought everything was ok, so he took his eye off the ball a bit last night. If you tell him that you are unhappy, he sounds the sort who will do something about it. As a guide leader, I hate bullying, and would want to get rid of the perpetrator, not the victim, but as we encourage our girls to work independently of us, honestly we don't know everything unless we get told!

So I would give it a break until christmas, and then go back, but give the leader a call before you go back, so he knows where he stands. Think how frustrating it would be for him if good kids left because of something he didn't know about. Even if your boys don't go back, he might still like to know, so he can either keep an eye on this boy in the future, or change some of the things he does in his meetings.

I am always looking to improve, but as above, I am a volunteer, I work part time and have two children under 4! I know that not every week is perfect for every child, and I can take constructive criticism. Not understanding what is going on is no good for anyone.

lollilou · 02/12/2011 15:26

My Ds was in Beavers and he was subject to a lot of verbal bullying which I didn't know anything about until I took him out as he was unhappy there. To be fair he isn't really the sort of boy who likes the some of the things they do there anyway. If your boys don't want to go back I would take them out and find another activity. If they do want to continue talk to the leader again.

cat64 · 02/12/2011 15:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

TinyArmy · 02/12/2011 16:36

MIL says this was the exact reason she pulled DH out of scouts. Her and some other like minded parents formed their own little camping group. Obvi wasn't as full on scouty as actually joining scouts, but they got to do outdoor activities together. Both boys and girls were included.

exoticfruits · 02/12/2011 17:14

I would agree with cat64. It would be disappointing if it continued because I always recommend the Scout movement to those who are having frienship problems because they are all inclusive. When I was a Beaver leader we worked hard to make sure they all had a good time and we had several with SN who enjoyed the meetings.

CrosswordAddict · 02/12/2011 17:18

Child abuse is child abuse.
It doesn't matter who is doing the abusing.
All this stuff about "They need to toughen up" is a cop-out.
TAke photos. Take action. Make a fuss.
If need be ask your local police to give a caution. That might get the message across.

MabelLucyAttwell · 02/12/2011 17:20

jellybeans

So the baddies were punished and repeated the 'offence'. Isn't there a rule that says Scouts who do not behave like Scouts should be removed from the group?

Instead of keen little boys having to leave because that's what the parent thinks should happen, why doesn't the parent stand her/his ground for her two and suggest that the non-Scouts should leave?

exoticfruits · 02/12/2011 17:22

I think that this is way OTT CrosswordAddict. Take the advice of cat64. If someone barged into my meeting with all guns blazing like that I would stop being a leader. They are volunteers, giving up their spare time-talk to them in a civilized manner!

CrosswordAddict · 02/12/2011 17:26

exoticfruits Not getting at the Scout Leader but I do feel that the perpetrators should not get away with this, chiefly because they may then escalate their activities and someone's child could get seriously hurt as a result.

SoupDragon · 02/12/2011 17:31

Child abuse?? [rolls eyes]

Taking the bullying behaviour out of the equation - do they enjoy scouts? If they do, pursue it with the scout leader and explain that this went beyond normal boisterous boy behaviour. He does sound like he is on the ball generally.

If they don't enjoy it, then stop going.

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