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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To wonder how the HELL some people get into university?

600 replies

SayYuleNowSayWhipTheReindeer · 01/12/2011 18:50

I'm currently doing a degree as a mature student alongside work, and am just amazed at the stupidity lack of knowledge some of my fellow students have. For instance, nearly all of them - on a fecking ENGLISH LANGUAGE degree course - mix up "your" and you're", "there" and "their", and use the spelling "definately".

I overheard a conversation today that involved several students talking about how they didn't know their times tables above 5 or 6. Shock

AIBU to seriously wonder if it's even worth doing a degree if this is the standard they're allowing in at the moment?

OP posts:
claig · 02/12/2011 14:13

'I don't think people are arguing that being able to carry out repeated addition is not a basic skill. Being able to carry it out is not the same thing as knowing all the answers off by heart.'

I'm not talking about 'by heart'. I am objecting to LRD's statement that arithmetic is not maths. It is a part of the Queen of the Sciences, mathematics, just like spelling is a part of English.

RockStockAndTwoOpenBottles · 02/12/2011 14:16

I'm not sure any of you would have found them to be perfectly honest Grin

LRDtheFeministDragon · 02/12/2011 14:16

In theory, I understand you could be a mathematician even if you had (eg) brain damage that meant you had to work out your calculations every time. I don't really understand very well how and why, but my brother and SIL are both pure mathematicians and have assured me this is true (and that, equally, you can construct a proof without really thinking in terms of arithmetic at all. But to me this is very much 'dark art', to use Milly's term).

Btw, I think counting is not a 'sphere' of mathematics any more than typing/writing is a 'sphere' of English Lit.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 02/12/2011 14:18

Spelling is not part of English Literature (though it must be necessary to English Language).

You need to be able to understand how to study words. You don't need to have memorized all the spellings.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 02/12/2011 14:18

Actually, I should say it may be necessary to English Language - not my discipline so I don't know.

claig · 02/12/2011 14:20

Then why do they teach it in maths classes and why are maths books printed which teach children how to count and do arithmetic?

Trills · 02/12/2011 14:21

claig "Arithmetic is not maths" was said in a context similar to if someone had said "I could easily get a degree in English, I'm really good as spelling" and someone had said "Spelling isn't English".

claig · 02/12/2011 14:22

Why do KS1 SATS maths tests ask questions on counting and arithmetic?

LRDtheFeministDragon · 02/12/2011 14:22

I think you get taught to count in numeracy lessons these days?

I know in casual usage we all talk about arithmetic/maths as synonyms and spelling as 'English', but this thread is about university level, and at university level the differences become important IMO.

claig · 02/12/2011 14:23

Trills, LRD says that arithmetic is not a sphere of maths. She said it is not maths.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 02/12/2011 14:23

Btw, when I was at primary school we did cooking in maths class - to practice our arithmetic. I don't therefore believe cooking is part of maths, nor do I think learning to put up your hand to ask to use the loo is an essential academic skill, but I can see why it's taught at primary school.

IMO these are similar examples.

Original poster
SayYuleNowSayWhipTheReindeer · 02/12/2011 14:24

Bugger OTH - iPhone autocorrect Wink

Rock, just because you could actually still see straight on Saturday does NOT give you the right to be so smug! Grin Yes it does

OP posts:
claig · 02/12/2011 14:25

No, this thread is about the OP being surprised taht university students were unaware of basics. Arithmetic, counting, addition and multiplication are teh elementary basics of mathematics, which is why they are taught in KS1 onwards.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 02/12/2011 14:27

claig, I say it's not maths in the context of discussing university level maths.

I've also said elsewhere that if you cannot understand why and how an arithmetic calculation works, that is a real problem (unlike not rote learning your ntables), and yes, at that level if you cannot master the arithmetic you will not I think master the maths.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 02/12/2011 14:28

She said they didn't know their tables. This is not essential to university mathematics, nor is spelling essential to university English.

claig · 02/12/2011 14:28

'Btw, when I was at primary school we did cooking in maths class - to practice our arithmetic. I don't therefore believe cooking is part of maths'

I don't think that cooking is part of maths, but it was intended to help with arithmetic, which is part of maths, and is why teh cooking was being done - not to create a lasagna but to teach arithmetic

whomovedmychocolate · 02/12/2011 14:28

I think actually the problem may be that no one practices writing these days. I mean, when was the last time you had to compose a letter. We are all using short bursts of communication instead and you get out of practice and just don't bother to pick up on it. So it becomes the norm to just trot out any old shit and not worry.

However I do think it's considered cool to be stupid these days. So I wonder how much of it is for show?

MillyR · 02/12/2011 14:30

This is a ridiculous argument. Everybody agrees that being able to multiply numbers is a basic life skill. The rest is just hair splitting over context.

I do like the phrase 'Queen of Sciences' though.

grumplestilskin · 02/12/2011 14:30

WMMC, you don't write letters? this week we've had to write letters to our managing agents and our home insurance.

giveitago · 02/12/2011 14:30

Well, my ds who is doing ks1 won't know what rabies is. And given my financial circumstances he'll probably not know until he has his own cash to travel to countries where rabies is present.

claig · 02/12/2011 14:30

LRD, I wasn't talking about tables. I was disagreeing with your view that arithmetic is not maths. It is the basis of all mathematical knowledge which is why it is taught in maths classes across the globe.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 02/12/2011 14:31

Yes, I get that claig - but IMO it's the same reason times tables are taught in 'maths class' - it's not because people seriously think it's the same thing as maths, but because it's useful to help people understand maths.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 02/12/2011 14:33

I don't believe it is the basis of all mathematical knowledge, though. The axioms are, but arithmetic in general is surely just an ancillary skill?

I probably can't explain why I think this very well, it's just I've heard it insisted upon by mathematicians as an important distinction, so I was trying to say that.

I think we probably do have different views though, because you copare it to spelling being part of English, and that I do think I can reject pretty comprehensively.

KatAndKit · 02/12/2011 14:33

Memorising the multiplication table is not essential to university mathematics. That is true.

But it is a fucking poor show that an increasing number of school leavers are going to university without a basic grasp of spelling, mental arithmetic, and the ability to express themselves properly in writing. This is basic stuff which children should have mastered in junior school. The ability to write a good essay should have been learnt at GCSE level and then developed at A level. Obviously essay writing is not relevant to all subjects and some can get by perfectly well without it. But they should have still learnt correct written English at school.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 02/12/2011 14:35

That is true Kat. Sad