to think these people were selfish and rude.

[cakeoclock]

The push chair v wheelchair on a bus just reminded me what happened this weekend.

I was christmas shopping with friends (one in a wheelchair) in Harvey Nicks Leeds and it was pretty busy. We stood waiting for the lift, the doors opened and it was rammed full of people (no push chairs). Not one of the miserable gits got out to make space for the wheelchair just looked away until the doors shut and we had to wait ages for another lift. There were escalators less than a minute walk from the lift.

AIBU to think that this is lazy, selfish and awful and to hope if any of you are reading you feel ashamed.

Tbh I struggle to accept that a wheelchair user would expect several people to vacate the lift they were already riding in. Was your friend bothered by having to wait another couple of minutes, OP? Did he/she show the same level of outrage as you? It just doesn't seem that huge a deal to me, on the scale of discrimination against wheelchair users (of which there is plenty, of course). Yes, in an ideal world it would be great if a couple of lift users had got out, but I don't think it's exactly a terrible indictment of them that they didn't, in this case.

Maybe those in the lift didn't realise there were escalators nearby.

What about someone with a double buggy? Should people already in the lift get out of it for them? Just wondering, likes ...

Heh heh, x-posts Fanjo.

It always amazes me to hear some people whine on and on about wanting to be treated as equals. Then when they are, they whine on and on about being treated the same as everyone else.
I am with old lady on this

Why are people being dense about this?

Person A is able bodied and can use stairs or escalator
Person B is in a wheelchair or a pram and can't. Person, C, for argument's sake, is pushing the chair or pram.

The lift is full. Person A should get out of the lift and walk or use the escalators in order to allow persons B and C to move between floors. That is the right thing to do, morally, and also in order to use the lifts for their designed purpose, which is to make upper and lower floors accessible to those in wheelchairs or prams.

OP YANBU - although I would have looked them square in the eye and asked whether anyone would mind taking the stairs so my friend and I could get in.

I know this is a whole other thread but today I saw a woman with a double buggy and a man in a wheelchair queuing to use an automatic door which people were walking through. Not one bugger had the insight to use the push doors next to it. One man actually ran through.

And yes, I'm sure both the woman with the buggy and the man using the wheelchair could, eventually, have manoeuvred the push doors, albeit with some difficulty. But wouldn't it have been lovely if just one person had sad, "After you" to either or both of them?

I think that sometimes people presume that people with children or people with visible disabilities don't have any other demands on their time and so can just wait.

You don't know how much of a hurry someone with small children or a wheelchair is in, either.

yabu
she had to wait for the next lift, no biggie.
when I take dd out we tend to use a less popular lift (in the shopping centre) as I Cba to wait for the little main lift, watching a ;ift full of lazy people going past is not my idea of fun.
as for the posters who say you should have left her to get the lift on her own...pmsl. who would then push the wheelchair.
{I don't care if people say dd is in a wheelchair or using a wheelchair as both are right. but she is not wheelchair bound, that is horrid)

I think the salient point is not that they should leave the lift, but that they shouldn't be in the lift in the first place. Use the escalators, or god forbid anyone might actually use the stairs, and leave the lifts for the people who can use neither?

I realize there are "invisible" disabilities, however it's a statistical bloody impossibility for every single sodding person in the world to have one, and some people really are just entitled fuckwits.

Case in point: I'm on the top floor of a shopping centre (meaning no parking above us), there are escalators and stairs in abundance for able-bodied people, and I am pushing my DS(4m) in his buggy. The lifts are ram-packed, and after 20 minutes of me trying to get into the lifts, I give up. I'd not seen a single buggy, wheelchair or crutch. They were all just full of people standing around. Most of them weren't even elderly - they were teens/early 20's! So I eventually get sick of waiting around, and try and go down the nearest escalator. A security guard stops me and tells me it's a fire hazard. I lose my rag, and he goes to the lifts, waits for one to open and says "Anyone who doesn't unequivocally need this lift, please step out". No-one moves a sodding inch, and eventually he gives up and helps me carry my shopping, my pushchair, my handbag and my nappybag down three flights of stairs.

Wheelchair users, people with crutches and people who have buggies should be given priority because, funnily enough, it's why lifts were invented. They weren't invented so the able-bodied fucking gobshite lazy people of our society could use them as a personal travelling service.

I would definitely step aside and let a person with a pram or in a wheel chair get into the lift before me, but I can't honestly say that I would have ever thought to get out of a lift to let them in. Actually, in the case of a wheel chair user, I would have thought that I would embarass them more by doing that.

YANBU

But to all the outraged people on here, can you honestly say you have all stepped out of a lift for a wheelchair user? I cannot say that I always have (to be honest I've given it thought and I'm just not sure). I think sometimes it is about being genuinely distracted/unthinking rather than being an out and out bastard!

I am glad I read this thread though, as I will always do this in future.

How long do you want them to wait, Presents? Xmas shopping Saturdays in a busy department store, how many lifts full of lazy fuckers who can't be arsed to use stairs should we wait for? 5? 10? All day? Because there are SO many twats around that does happen, every bloody lift full.

YANBU - I would get out of a lift for a wheelchair user.

Buggies on the other hand.... definitely not. Wheelchair users don't really have a choice, whereas you make a choice to use a buggy and not carry your child in a sling. I do have a buggy, I'm not a mad sling-obsessive, but I choose when it is reasonable to use a buggy, and a busy shopping centre is not one of those places.

And of course not everyone in the lift had an invisible disability. The same argument comes up when children misbehave, are in buggies at the age of 5 etc etc - "they probably have invisible SN". Well, of course it's possible, but statistically very unlikely.

It always amazes me to hear some people whine on and on about wanting to be treated as equals. Then when they are, they whine on and on about being treated the same as everyone else.

FFS! Treating disabled people as equals does not mean treating them the same as everyone else - it means making adjustments where necessary so they have the same opportunities as everyone else. Such as moving between floors without having to wait a ridiculous amount of time to do so.

well they can have the opportunity to wait. like I have to

I have absolutely awful knees sometimes - they have a tendency to lock into place - but even if I were using a lift for that purpose I'd still get off to allow someone with a buggy or pushchair on. I don't mind dicking around waiting, or getting the escalator. They are physically unable to.

While we're at it, does everyone think that the disabled spaces in supermarket carparks are a free-for-all? Because obviously, if they aren't entitled to extra assistance in a shopping centre then they aren't entitled to a good parking space. Especially as they don't even have to walk, they can just roll the extra distance. Fucking lazy bastards.

Some opinions on here are just shocking.

" Person A should get out of the lift and walk or use the escalators "

Of course they shouldn't.

This thread is astonishing and despressing me. I can't believe so many people think the OP is BU.

[walks away shaking head and muttering about young people today emoticon]

What ItWasA said, yes.

It is about working together and expecting people to do the best tehy can. I will put ds3 in a life becuase although he can walk fine he panics at heights so if it is staors where you can see otehr floors- well you would need to be a nasty shite to make an ASD child scared wouldn't you?

OTOH DH will take the other 3 who CAN walk and without problems if with an adult onn teh stiars, thus freeing up 4 places.

Cooperation. It's not ahrd and it greases the wheels nicely.

You don't 'have to'. You can use the escalator. You can use the stairs. If you really want to use the lift, you can choose to wait - someone in a wheelchair does not have a choice.

exactly, its about equalising an unequal field. If you (group 1, lets say) can use either lift, escalator or stairs, and a wheelchair users or other people who can't use stairs or escalators (group 2) can only use a lift, this is not equal. If group 1 fills all the lifts, meaning group 2 cannot get around, this is far less equal again. If group 1 would get their lazy asses out of the lifts, things would be moving more towards equal.

I'm rather disgusted you need this explaining, but perhaps you are just ignorant rather than discriminating.

Oh and I will let a buggy on yes; or a pregnant women.

I suspect anyone who does not did not read of that poor pregnant women who tripped carrying her buggy and helping her child down some staiors and lost her baby weeks before her due date.

I agree with Neuromantic "How long do you want them to wait, Presents? Xmas shopping Saturdays in a busy department store, how many lifts full of lazy fuckers who can't be arsed to use stairs should we wait for? 5? 10? All day? Because there are SO many twats around that does happen, every bloody lift full.

I have been stuck on the middle floor of a very busy department store with my DS in his wheelchair for an absolute age as the elevator was full of lazy, inconsiderate people going up and down from the top to the bottom floor and yes there was an escalator AND stairs in the shop which were left unused as everybody decided they would be using the elevator.

DS and I have no choice but to use the elevator, so are stuck for ages because other people are too lazy to stand on an escalator or walk up stairs. How is this fair and reasonable?

It's choice, or lack of it. The people using the lift could have chosen to use the escalators but didn't (cos they are lazy).

The person using a wheelchair has no choice. He/she has to use the lift.

YANBU. There are some lazy, selfish people around.

I use a wheelchair and have no problem waiting if a lift is full like everyone else.

Battles are many and this is a fight that isn't worth winning.