to think these people were selfish and rude.

[cakeoclock]

The push chair v wheelchair on a bus just reminded me what happened this weekend.

I was christmas shopping with friends (one in a wheelchair) in Harvey Nicks Leeds and it was pretty busy. We stood waiting for the lift, the doors opened and it was rammed full of people (no push chairs). Not one of the miserable gits got out to make space for the wheelchair just looked away until the doors shut and we had to wait ages for another lift. There were escalators less than a minute walk from the lift.

AIBU to think that this is lazy, selfish and awful and to hope if any of you are reading you feel ashamed.

I would like to assure Pag that I for one, do not make a distinction between heroes in a wc and others.

its a bit wierd that she does

everything that pictish has said, and i am and horrified by some of the posts on this thread tbh. how bloody selfish and thoughtless can some people be?!!

i have a pushchair and tbh most of the time i still go on the escalator, as its quicker and easier than waiting for the lift which is always full. you can wait for ages in some shops.

its just politeness and good manners to get out the lift and let someone who has more NEED use it, or even better dont use it at all if you dont NEED to!

I wish to clarify.

If I were waiting for a lift and a person in a wheelchair/other disability were also waiting then, when the lift arrived, I would invite them to enter it first (and have done so) because I figure it's easier for me to nip in as the door is closing than it is for them.

However, I have also stepped in first, if I am standing at the front, and pressed the 'door open' button to ensure the doors are open for long enough for them to get in.

This is because I am an adult and they are an adult. I will have evaluated the situation and taken what I consider to be the best course of action. Not because I think they are incapable of making that decision, but because someone needs to enter first and, to be honest, given that I'm not an animal, I would always invite the other waitee to enter first.

Sometimes the person in a wheelchair says "no, after you" (because they are also a reasonable adult) and sometimes they just say "thank you". Because they are a reasonable adult.

I don't ever presume that because someone is in a wheelchair or has another disability, that they are incapable of the kind of normal social interactions that I would expect of someone who wasn't in a wheelchair/didn't have an obvious physical disability. Neither do I presume that they expect me to engage in some odd little social dance where we determine a hierarchy, nor do I wish to patronise them.

If there is not enough room in the lift for both of us, I will also invite a wheelchair user to enter the lift instead of me, because I am polite like that. But I would also make the same offer to anyone by virtue of the fact that if there is not enough room for me and them, then I would always offer the lift to another person. They are then free to accept that offer or not.

However, if I am in a lift that opens at a floor and the person waiting is in a wheelchair and makes the decision that, due to the number of other people in the lift, there is not enough room for them, I would expect them to wait for the few minutes, like anyone else, for the empty lift on it's return journey.

It wouldn't occur to me that when the door closed the person was sitting there seething and thinking the other lift passengers were BU! I would assume they are thinking "Oh the lift is full, I'll get it next time". Because that's how it works.

TBH, I'd rather buggies used lifts for safety. Many escalators have signs saying no buggies for that reason. One of the few times I used an escalator with a pram, it got stuck at the top and flipped right over with me landing on top as I was behind it with no place to go.

Folkgirl- I agree with everything you said.

I feel the same way as folkgirl has posted. I resent the omnipresent accusations on this thread regarding disabilities; nobody has the right to comment on anybody else because they just don't know what the situation is.

Well I am disabled, can manage escalators but not stairs. When I go shopping with DH and its even remotely busy I get the lift and he gets the stairs and we meet at the bottom. He wouldn't dream of taking up the space of someone who needed it more. I'm genuinely shocked that so many posters on here would.

I can't believe that you are shocked because someone gets in a lift without a disability.

Im beginning to think my and others oft repeated and pertinent post based on our experiences is invisible to these people. Beutifully put folkgirl, BUT WHAT ABOUT THE FACT THAT PEOPLE ARE TELLING YOU THAT THEY HAVE TO WAIT FOR MUCH LONGER THAN THE NEXT LIFT?
Is this mic on?
Les gens vous disent qu'ils doivent attendre beaucoup plus longtemps que la coulée suivante?
Ludzie mówią ci, że trzeba czekać znacznie dłużej niż NEXT LIFT?
L a gente te está diciendo que tiene que esperar mucho más tiempo que el siguiente ascensor?
W atu nawaambia kwamba kusubiri kwa muda mrefu kuliko kuinua NEXT?

Any joy?

If its quiet DH will get in the lift with me. If its busy and people with buggies or using wheelchairs are waiting he'll get the stairs. I assumed that's what decent people did. I'm certainly being educated tonight.

And I can't believe people willy nilly get in lifts when they can use stairs and escalators and leave lifts to folk who need them more whether it it be wheel chair users, people with buggies, people who whatever reason findit difficult to use stairs/escalators like some old folk or people with limited mobility. Has this really, really never occurred to you? Has nothing said here made you look at this in a different way?

dancing mustard spoke a lot of sense............

No wonder we have the 'why are we so overweight' stuff at the moment.

I always assumed that there is a sensible order to this. If I was unable to use the stairs I would use the escalator, if I was unable to use the escalator I would use the lift. I am able to and therefore do always use the stairs, why wouldn't you? When I had a pram with me I had no choice but to use the lift.

It always amazes me in hospital the amount of people who use the lifts despite a large notice saying 'Please reserve for essential hospital traffic'
We have to wait with poorly people on a stretcher (I am a paramedic) while stacks of visiting relatives breeze in and out of the lifts without a thought for whether they actually need to use them. They are of course entitled to use them, and that is all that matters to some people.

What a patronising post, Neuromantic. Do you find that works for you in RL or just when you're keyboard bashing?

Really? If someone has no health or mobility issues and gets freaked by a few flights of stairs, maybe it's time they didn themselves a favour and really started taking the stairs (there's always the escalator of course iif the stairs scare them too much).

'Night all..... Goes off to bed to snuggle lovely, decent, empathetic DH and thanks her lucky stars he's not a lazy, selfish lift-hogging tosser...

I think of myself as fairly considerate, but this thread has been an eye opener and has made me reconsider my approach.

I've tended to use lift or stairs or escalator, whichever is closer.

Definitely wouldn't push past someone using a wheelchair, but don't think I would get out of a lift either. I wonder if that would ever be perceived as patronising, as opposed to considerate?

I think if a lift opens and people don't get in, (able bodied or wcu), then I would assume that they would get the next lift, like I would with a buggy. Didn't realise that people could be waiting for ages for a lift.

Lying, in rl one rarely has a pertinent and simple point so rudely ignored by so many people, it doesnt really come up. Do you find that your inability to appreciate any viewpoints other than your own hampers you in rl, or is it only on your pc you seem so charmless and blinkered?

Neuromantic, there's no need for sarcasm or to be so unpleasant!

My mum has been disabled since she was 17. She can use an escalator if it's quiet, but generally needs the lift. Particularly on a bad day.

My dad has an illness, which is now terminal, and means he now has limited and rather unsteady mobility and the same goes for him.

If I'm with them and it's busy, then I use the stairs.

When the children were younger and I needed the lift for the buggies, DH would get the stairs if it were busy.

But neither of my parents have ever complained that a lift is so full that they can't get on it at all. So whilst, I'm sure there are times when this is the case for other people - I'm certainly not going to doubt the experiences other people have described on here, it's certainly not the experience of disabled people I know so I'm not going to assume it's the experience for disabled people I don't know!

I would never get onto a lift ahead of someone who needed it more than me, but once on it, I probably wouldn't get off it. Should I? Maybe. Will I in future? Maybe. I hadn't really considered that people would have to wait for ages before.

In fact, I've only ever used the lift if it's been necessary, I tend to use the stairs anyway. But if I am in the lift, it is because I need to use it for some reason on that occasion. So for that reason, my need, at that time, is as great as anyone else's need. I can't speak for people who only use the lift and never use the stairs/escalator.

As much as I would never group all disabled people together and assume that all disabled people are the same, I wouldn't group all able-bodied people together either. We're not 2 separate homogeneous groups!

I can't see where you've been pertinent but simple, yes. You don't know anybody's circumstances yet you keep chanting the same old thing trying to bludgeon other people with it when they don't agree with you, resorting to closet insults. Folkgirl's post was pertinent to me as was DancingMustard's; those are other viewpoints than my own. Some people do have the wit to make others stop and think.

So, sozzlechops lets get this right then, able bodied people must NEVER use a lift and anybody that does take advantage of one is a terrible, selfish, lazy person. How dare anybody argue with this? They are there for disabled people only.

Some posters really do live in cloud cuckoo land...

Long live the tolerant society! Hurrah for old Great Britain. Thank you Margaret Thatcher for giving generations of selfish fuckwits.

No, I have used lifts sometimes but actually prefer to use the stairs if they are a viable alternative, I will walk by the lift if I know that stairs are nearby. On the rare occasion I do use a lift I'd like to think I would get out for someone in a wheelchair as I recognise that their need is probably greater than mine.

I can understand that sometimes people find it easier to use lifts and that obviously some people have never considered that others might need the lift more than them or that that person waiting in a wheelchair might have a long wait for a lift with enough space (though this person's lack of imagination might worry me). What I can't understand is that even when all the things on this thread have been pointed out to people, they still can't see that an able bodied person taking the stairs or escalator might make life easier for those who aren't as able and might already have a tough enough time of it already.

I honestly find that mindset quite strange and sad tbh.

though this person's lack of imagination might worry me

The thing is though, sozzledchops, I don't think it is a 'lack of imagination'. People have their own lives and their own stuff going on. That person with a 'lack of imagination' might be shopping for an outfit for their grandma's funeral, or they might have just found out their husband has been having an affair, or they might be worried about some hospital results they're waiting for... Tbh, I don't walk around 'imagining' the finer details of other people's lives.

As lovely as it would be if everybody put everybody else first, sometimes life gets in the way, people are preoccupied and they just don't think. Not because they're thoughtless, because I, and most other people (disabled or not) are reasonable adults, but because they have their own lives to lead.

As I have said, I don't routinely use the lift. But if I do, it is because I need to and, at that moment, my need is not out-trumped by anyone else's. Just because you, or anyone else, don't understand what my needs are at that time is not my problem.