To find Jimmy Carr's latest 'joke' really disgusting and pathetic

[runningwilde]

Jimmy Carr has done it again. Nor content with making deeply disrespectful and horrid jokes about soldiers, he has now made a joke about children with Down's Syndrome and the Sunshine Variety coaches that do so much to help these kids and others too.

I used to like him but he goes too far. I really think that some things should not be joked about. Why do some people feel the need to tell
Jokes like that?

Yet, I am also aware of the fact that we can't censor jokes, but I wish some comedians actually set out to make us laugh with properly funny jokes rather than the nasty shit that Jimmy has been peddling again.

"Oh that's fine, as long as we don't offend anyone who knows someone who has SN."

that's just crap, it's not about trying not to offend people, it's about making it unacceptable to belittle and mock people whose lives can be made shit by the small minded bigotry and hatred of idiots.

"Tigerseyemum, all that may be true, but do you think that most people 'get it'? I really don't think they do."

With respect that's nothing to do with him if people don't get what he's trying to do(once again contingent on believing that he is holding up a mirror to soceity).
I'm sure people laughed at goodness gracious me or Chris rocks niggers v black people routine for the wrong reasons. Ditto the jokes in the office based on race or attitudes to the disabled or pretty much any of Brass eye.
Now fair enough if you think any of these or JC's is just out and out bigotry, but if you think that they are attempting to satirise lazy stereotypes you can't really blame them if some people are laughing at them on their base level rather than the intended satire.

Ah, and here we have the nub of the thread. So far it has been OK to describe peole as cunts, morons, idiots, people who delight in disabled people being beaten up and ridiculed.

Those who dared transgressed your permitted boundaries - those parents of SN who children who were told they were wrong not to be offended, those wh did not toe the party line and condemn Carr - were bullied into keeping quiet and backing down.

This is about a joke reported in the Daily Mail - shame on those of you who read the Mail, I would have quite a few adjectives I could use to describe you if I wanted to be lazy and prejudiced too - and it's used - as usual on MN - to attack others because you feel it's OK to because you feel attacked yourself.

You know, I am sorry that so many people with SN children feel so marginalised, that society is so hostile. That you look everywhere for evidence that everyone is laughing at your children. I'm sorry that some of you seem distraught that you have children with disabilities. I personally know people with SN and disabilities within my family, my circle of friends, and professionaly. I know life can be hideously hard. Blaming a comedian, I'm sorry but that's weak. There are issues - personal and social - at play. Carr and others point these out. I'm sorry you don't get that, but clearly you don't.

Do I think everyone in the audience gets it? Nope. The act is not to blame if some people don't get it. But let's face it - those people laughing at the joke for the 'wrong' reasons were already thinking those things anyway. They think Carr gave them permission to laugh but really he didn't. Too bad they didn't get that, but it won't change anything.

What's more, I'm sorry I bothered to give you a considered response as someone who actually is in the audience. Because obviously it was all just a load of shit. You've decided. In fact, you had already decided before any arguments were put forward. That's why Carr doesn't bother 'defendig' himself - you are not prepared to listen. Go back to your tabloid press and read things that reaffirm your prejudices, and stop pretending you want a debate when you don't.

"What a load of horseshit, tigerseye. the main reason Carr doesn;t make racist jokes is because he knows it would put him beyond the pale. he knows telling jokes about disabled people won't, because idiots like you are taken in by him. The way he makes his money is not through humour, but through shock; I frankly couldnt be arsed to read most of your post because it sub-pseuds corner drivel, but you can be confident that Carrs' audience are not appreciating the "subtleties", such as they are."

LOL, you dismissed it as horseshit without reading it, I rest my case. You interpreted a joke lifted from an act that you hadn't seen and used it to support your own arguments.

I'm not sure what sub-pseuds corner means (no idea there) and I'm not sure you do either.

Oh but I forgot, aren't you the one who knows him? So I guess you are entitled to the last word, yes?

By that logic, tigerseyeMum, Jimmy Carr would be glad to see this thread. That his Turn is sparking debate.

Yes, absolutely. Though he might like to see open-minded discussion rather than pole positions and insults.

Although he is quite fond of the use of the word 'cunt'.

There is nothing that infuriates me more than people with children with SN being accused of 'frothing' and overreacting by people with NT kids, if they are angry when people make offensive jokes about their children

Nothing? No other thing in this world. At all?

I could think of 10 things that infuriate me more just while writing this.

I guess that is why you find him very offensive while I am just "meh".

You do need to take into account that many people don't see things your way.

Tigerseye
I don't have a child with SN. I don't actually know anyone with a child with SN - in real life. I have enough online friends who have been affected by morons being "amusing".

And yes, I can ignore or not read the Daily Mail. I can turn the TV off. But I cannot turn away from the fact that people like Carr make it acceptable to make jokes about SN.

Not because everyone watches, but because he is in mainstream media and there is a trickle down effect.

He influences up and coming comics.

He influences the "jokers" who text and FB these kind of comments around.

So none of you froth brigade, those of you who think we don't get Carr's 'edginess' is it ok for me to stereotype YOUR children? To point, to stare, to be snide?

That episode of Richard Herring's Objective about the wheelchair was really good - without being insulting or patronising to anyone with a disability. Francesca Martinez should be way more famous as a stand up, very funny woman.

Oh sorry I didnt qualify my annoyance with 'on threads like these' whatmeworry, didn't think I had to, but clearly I should have.

I get that, I do. I worried when Gervais tried to resurrect the word 'Mong' because I thought it was misguided and for the wrong reasons.

Do you think people are really that stupid to think it's acceptable to make casual jokes or texts or whatever because, within a gig, they've seen a comedian do it? I know a lot of people very into comedy who see these shows and they don't make those kind of jokes. The joke is about the jokes, not the subject matter.

There is very much a trend in comedy about focusing on SN, definitely. But there is a cultural trend around SN at the moment. Comedy may well give some people permission to tell the jokes - as they see it - but we can't control that. In fact, as someone pointed out, the Variety Sunshine joke has been circulating in playgrounds since the 80s. That's partly why we can see it, recognise the lazy stereotype, and laugh and the stupidity of even thinking never mind saying the joke.

People making offensive comments in the street or at schoolor whereever have been doing that since time immemorial. I expect they seek out such jokes for their own reasons. Not everyone shares those reasons.

As someone once pointed out, we have a History cable channel that runs documentaries on Hitler and the Third Reich. People watch these for different reasons. Some people watch them for very negative reasons (I have unfortunately met people like this who do). But the channel and the documentaries are not to blame for those people thinking and behaving the wa they do and we don't stop making documentaries about Hitler because some people will be watching them for reasons they were not intended for.

tigerseyemum are you Jimmy Carr??
If you are, you are a creepy smug twat.
Hey, just joking.
Hope you get that it's just in the context of what MN may think of you and therefore terribly subtle.

Yes. They do. Have you not seen the posts about idiots chasing special school buses hurling abuse? I heard the word Mong so many times during the Gervais incident, more than I have in years. This sort of thing is manna to them. Why are those defending this crap not answering why it's ok to have this 'humour' aimed at those who can't answer back but not about people from different racial groups?

Tigerseye
No, they don't tell the jokes because a comedian on TV told it.

But they feel able to tell the jokes because jokes about SN are not seen as being as bad as jokes eg. about skin colour.

And that is due to the fact that people like Carr make it acceptable by telling these jokes.

If I was Jimmy Carr I wouldn't give a flying fuck, as I'd be busy moving into my £10 million house and driving my Bentley round.

I was ignoring this thread but then ironically people started throwing abusive comments about so naturally, what with being offended and all, I thought it was my MN duty to come on and froth about how I'm not a stupid cunt and then flounce off.

Glitter, that was my point. There is a danger that jokes like these are picked up by the 'wrong' people. But these jokes were already in existence and these people were already waiting in the wings to leap out and shout abuse down the street. Better we have them out in the open and see who they are, no?

Or maybe it's better everyone pretends the world is really PC now and no one thinks of nasty jokes like these any more.

Besides, the point I was making was that Carr tels jokes in a very carefully controlled context. The Daily Mail was irresponsible in taking something out of that context and plastering it all over daily media to be picked up by all and sundry. So in pretending to froth, they actually perpetuated the joke out of context. Like they did with the veterans joke.

They feel able to tell the jokes because we have a society that has a certain attitude towards SN at the moment! Carr reflects that. Yes there is of course a danger he perpetuates and fuels that. But then, you can't allow for the idiots out there who go looking for it. He can't take that responsibility.

As soon as society moves on and it will - the un-PC jokes will be about something else.

Tigerseyemum - you have close members of your family and friends with learning disabilities and have professional contact with people with learning disabilities? And none of them have a problem with this joke laughing at people with DS? Really? Have you actually asked them?

You say people who are inclined to be disabilist will be so anyway. Do you think that popular culture has so little impact on how people are treated in our society?

All those years back when the girls kissed in brookside or there was a gay relationship on Eastenders it marked a watershed for gay people. It was massively important to them in a positive way.

Carr and his ilk are important in a negative way.

The reason he doesn't make racist jokes is because they are illegal and also would keep him off the telly

But then as I AM offended AND I have a child with SN and a sister with DS I am just "weak" in your eyes aren't I?

The joke isn't laughing at people with DS, simple as.

I do expect him, and any producer who puts him on a stage, or in a program, to think about what he is doing.

And the impression that he is giving.

There are also racially offensive jokes out there but they are not broadcast as mainstream comedy and it's clear that within our society that's not acceptable. It's certainly not defended on here as clever or satirical. I only ask the same courtesy for my children.

He does think about it and that's why he has a specific type of dialogue with his audience.

Have you seen him live? (I don't mean edited TV stuff)

All I am here to do is contest the points seemingly put forward so far in the thread that:

1. All people who laugh at Carr's jokes are cunts who hate people with SN
2. The joke was against people with DS because it said so in the Mail
3. Carr is responsible for people attacking others with DS and perpetuating cruel myths

and

1. Carr and his ilk should not be allowed to say the things they do.

I disagree with all of the above. That is all. Feel free to disagree - there are many shades of grey here, for sure. But I'm not going to go round in circles.