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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To find Jimmy Carr's latest 'joke' really disgusting and pathetic

543 replies

runningwilde · 25/11/2011 14:24

Jimmy Carr has done it again. Nor content with making deeply disrespectful and horrid jokes about soldiers, he has now made a joke about children with Down's Syndrome and the Sunshine Variety coaches that do so much to help these kids and others too.

I used to like him but he goes too far. I really think that some things should not be joked about. Why do some people feel the need to tell
Jokes like that?

Yet, I am also aware of the fact that we can't censor jokes, but I wish some comedians actually set out to make us laugh with properly funny jokes rather than the nasty shit that Jimmy has been peddling again.

OP posts:
Sevenfold · 26/11/2011 19:36

oh great now we have people using "freedom of speech" as an excuse for crap " jokes"

what about disabled children/adults freedom, what about their children's freedom, does my dd not deserve to be able libe her life with out people taking the piss out of her because she is disabled, something she did not ask for

ExquisiteCake · 26/11/2011 19:48

Fucking hell. If you don't find them funny, don't watch them...don't start a thread about it which is just bringing more attention to it.

You can't cap "comedy" or "humour" or free speech for that matter. You cannot say,

"It's ok to joke about X,Y and Z but not about SN because I know someone who may or may not have known someone who has DS". You can't allow people to talk about the things you're comfortable with and nothing else. I'm not saying it's "RIGHT" what they're joking about, I'm saying that they have the right to say whatever the fuck they want about whatever the fuck they want and that I don't have to listen to it if I CHOOSE not to.

Sevenfold · 26/11/2011 19:50

I have the right to say people who find ripping the piss out of disabled people are utter shitefilled wankers.

ExquisiteCake · 26/11/2011 19:52

Yeah, you do. Just as much as people have the right to make "humour filled jokes" out of whatever subject they like.

AgentZigzag · 26/11/2011 19:53

How do you manage to not hear things you find offensive Exquisite?

You can only decide what you think once you've heard it, and you can't un-hear it can you? Grin

The OP can start any thread she likes, how can you find out what other people think if you don't talk about it?

MmeLindor. · 26/11/2011 19:53

ExquisiteCake
You are missing the point.

Jokes like this are part of the reason that there is disability hate crime. They encourage lowlife wankers, they enable them in being hateful towards people with disabilities.

It give the impression in our society, that it is ok to abuse disabled people.

I don't think that they should be banned, but I reserve the right to call anyone a wanker who tells these jokes, or laughs at them.

ExquisiteCake · 26/11/2011 19:57

I don't think you can ban subjects of any kind merely because it may or may not have a knock on effect.

No one moans as much when it's terrorism. And in all fairness to Carr his biggest line of "humour" is misogyny.

Agent- You could perhaps not watch/listen to a comedian that you know to be offensive to you? You can choose to accept that they can joke about whatever the fuck they want and you can take offence at whatever the fuck you want.

BeerTricksPotter · 26/11/2011 19:58

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ExquisiteCake · 26/11/2011 19:58

MME, call them wankers.

I think Carr is hilarious 80% of the time.

smallwhitecat · 26/11/2011 19:58

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MmeLindor. · 26/11/2011 20:00

Exquisite
I may well like some of his other material, but I refuse to watch someone who will make me want to throw something at the TV.

Tbh, I just don't get it. I find it lazy and attention seeking. Maybe that is it - always a good way to get your pic in all the papers and your name all over Twitter.

I would like to see him being confronted by the mother of a child with DS. See how funny and ironic and cool he is then.

ExquisiteCake · 26/11/2011 20:00

I have no problem with free speech of ANY kind, say what you like.

Call him a cunt, call his "humour" sick...choose to say you hate him or don't want to own a TV.

I don't care WHAT you say, I care about your right to SAY it.

nooka · 26/11/2011 20:01

Jimmy Carr is just a wanker though isn't he? I've never understood why he got any screen time. Smug, unpleasant and unfunny (and I really enjoy black humour generally).

I agree that was a deeply unpleasant joke and to me shows that he probably does really think that people with DS aren't people at all, because you really wouldn't have to have more than a few seconds of thought to understand that that was a horrible thing to think or say.

ExquisiteCake · 26/11/2011 20:02

MME: How might that go?

Woman: "You take the piss out of SN children".

JC: "Yes, yes I do, and working class people and people of other races and those whose English isn't their first language and homosexuals and Christians and Jews and....."

Do you genuinely think he's going to care?

mayorquimby · 26/11/2011 20:02

"Isn't the context the machinegun delivery of he adopts for his set? Gradually referencing and insulting different sections of society until he hits on a joke that has the shock factor for the largest part of his audience?

I've thought before now that Carr and Boyle and their ilk are almost conducting some kind of sociological experiment."

Well one thing that Carr has always said is that his favourite sound from any audience is a short burst of laughter followed by a kind of "oooh/intake of breath/noise of slight disapproval" because he wants to make people laugh involuntarily before they have a chance to think about the morality of the joke. So they've laughed because they think it's funny and that's their true reaction, but then they instantly recognise that they're not meant to find the topic funny and so they try to display the socially accepted response. Which he claims is the point of his shows, to get people to face up to the contradiction between their atural response and their socially conditioned one.
Now as with all comedy this is highly subjective so whether or not you believe him is entirely up to the individual.
If you like him then you're more likely to accept this.
If you dislike him you're going to view this as a thinly veiled effort to justify his rampant bigotry,racism,mysoginy and sexism.

TigerseyeMum · 26/11/2011 20:02

"Humour needs to come from truth, or some kind of recognition that it could be true, and the JC "joke" just isn't funny because anyone who lives in the world knows that DS kids don't all look alike.

We all know for a fact that he wouldn't have substituted the work "black people" for "downs kids" (and it also used to be acceptable to propagate the fallacy that white people can't tell black people apart.)

He wouldn't do this because it became not in any way OK to make racist jokes."

With respect, in part this is what the joke (and actually, the wider context of the act - because it is an act) is about. It's about the laziness of the stereotype and the set of assumptions required to set a joke up like that. It is about hitting a largely unconcious desire to laugh because of a level of recognition in an accepted truth. To a small extent, the joke as it stands is about how to the lazy mind they do 'all look the same yet we know - because we are intelligent people - that they don't. The joke is like many of his jokes - hand grenades lobbed into the audience to see what reaction they get. He is often referring quite directly in his act to the unconscious - the id, ego and superego and how certain things may connect with something very hidden or buried, things that as adults we process and know to be unacceptable. Part of the point is to connect with something either through a simple play on words or through a stereotype and see if it connects. Thats the 'Ooh' that follows the laugh.

Carr himself states very clearly on many occasions that because he says something - uses words to trip up the psyche - it does not mean he agrees with or supports it. He is, in many contexts, showing us the lazines behind the stereotype - he knows, as we do, that SN kids don't 'all look the same'. He slides in and out of a persona and pushes at boundaries to get a response. I wouldn't mind betting that he often is quite shocked at what peope laugh at - he occasionally dissects an audience reaction to show how disgusting it is to laugh at that. He qualifies what he does by saying - 'We all know that these are just jokes. Just words. Wordplay.' and indeed he has said 'Of course I am not the person I appear on stage. If people thought I really was like that, they would think I was a monster'. He expressed dismay at Jo Brand condemning his 'rae' jokes by saying 'I am upset because I thought she understod it, I thought she got where it comes from'.

Frankie Boyle described comedians as 'riding the crest of a wave'. Their job is to respond to the culture they live within, to some extent hold up a mirror to the truths, however unpleasant. Comedy is not always pleasant, or funny - read 'Comedians' by Trevor Griffiths if you want to see what he refers to. The jokes may serve as a reflexive action - look how shit aspects of society are. We still have a society where disabled people are discriminated against. He is the mouthpiece, if you like, of society and there is something highly unpalatable about present culture with regards to disabled people.

No Carr doesn't make (many) 'racist' jokes because the text of our present culture is not focused on that. He has made jokes about religion (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) and belief systems. He has discussed 1970s comedy in interviews, and how what he is doing may superficially seem similar to, say Manning or Davidson et al, but that the context and intent is very different. That's why he was upset at Davidson taking a joke and using it for different efect for a different purpose.

The trouble is it is a fine line. Comics get it wrong Boyle in my opinion got it wrong by personalising about Price's son. It was the equivalent of standing in the street pointing. But his intention was different.

Carr's context is complex. It rests on a longstanding relationship with his audience and the concept of boundaries and permission, as well as the darkness within human nature to laugh at incredibly dark areas of life. Each tour is about that relationship, pushing of boundaries and what is permissable. There is a to and fro dialogue between him and the audience and he often does express shock or dismay. He is known outside of his act to be very liberal, kind, and responsive to other people. I know some profess to 'know' him however I would point out that Carr himself went through a very dark and depressed period of his life and by his late 20s reached a crisis point. So how he was in the past may no be an accurate reflection of how he is now.

And as for the comments about how he 'looks wierd, creepy, there's something wrong with him' on this thread - well. Irony, much?

No one to my knowledge sat in that audience and laughed and said 'That joke is funny cos it's true, they DO all look the same'. The point was, it is a lazy stereotype that could be used as a weapon but is blatantly stupid and demonstrates the teller to be foolish. It's a juxtaposition of words - Carr delights in words - variety and same - that can be linked in a context. But they are 'just words' and used to demonstrate that we all know what tey are supposed to imply but that we all also know that they are simply not true and also unsayable. He is not so crass as to create a 'Pub Landlord' comedy character because it is much subtler than that.

I don't really want to go on about it any more than that because analysing comedy is pretentious, and no one wants my essays on what Carr may or may not be saying in one line taken out of context and plastered across the Daily Mail.

Sorry if that was long and rambling, but it is actually a very subtle act that he has and it is hard to express it on an internet forum.

MmeLindor. · 26/11/2011 20:03

Yes, Nooka.

I was thinking about Boyle and his joke about Katie Price's son, Harvey.

If he had made a joke taking the piss out of Harvey's skin colour rather than his SN, he would have been hung drawn and quartered. Not just be the "PC brigade".

Would anyone have defended his right to free speech then?

smallwhitecat · 26/11/2011 20:04

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MmeLindor. · 26/11/2011 20:05

Exquisite
I don't think that it would go like that. I read about a woman who stood up at a Boyle concert and said that she had a child with DS and she found it offensive what he was saying. Boyle did not shrug it off.

ExquisiteCake · 26/11/2011 20:06

I loathe Boyle (as in, I don't find him remotely funny).

He's still entitled to make jokes about whatever the fuck he likes.

The more of a reaction from you lot the more he's probably rubbing his hands in glee penning the next one.

ExquisiteCake · 26/11/2011 20:07

Erm Small, I have to put up with the shit from the Beeb and PAY FOR IT. I therefore just don't watch it. It isn't difficult. You don't like it, switch it off. No one is forcing your eyelids open.

I'm a woman, and pay for the Beeb to sack all female news readers as soon as they get to a certain age? Oh that's fine, as long as we don't offend anyone who knows someone who has SN.

smallwhitecat · 26/11/2011 20:09

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BeerTricksPotter · 26/11/2011 20:13

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hazeyjane · 26/11/2011 20:14

Tigerseyemum, all that may be true, but do you think that most people 'get it'? I really don't think they do.

The trouble is with a post modern comedy 'experiment' like that is that the people you are sending up end up buying your dvds and being your biggest fans. The same thing happened with Alf Garnett.

And unfortunately, no matter what the 'concept' is behind your clever comedy stylings, jokes that laugh at and mock the disabled and those with special needs, make it more acceptable to spout disablist crap.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 26/11/2011 20:21

ExquisiteCake, I have to say you are being very sneeringly insensitive here.

Clearly people's feelings shouldn't get in the way of a good bunfight though, eh?